Talk:Skanderbeg

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Skylax30 (talk | contribs) at 18:17, 30 October 2023 (→‎The islamic view). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Latest comment: 10 months ago by Skylax30 in topic The islamic view
Former good article nomineeSkanderbeg was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 2, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
January 28, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on November 28, 2007, November 28, 2008, November 28, 2009, November 28, 2010, November 28, 2011, November 28, 2013, November 28, 2014, November 28, 2016, and November 28, 2019.
Current status: Former good article nominee

Template:Vital article

Mother and Father

Father buried in ortodox monastry Hilandar, mother Vojislava born Brankovic, sisters Mara, Jelena broter Stanisa. How he can be hero of Albania when something like region, country or kingdom or and writen proof about albanian language dont exist from that time? 87.116.164.2 (talk) 21:27, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Cheap amatoresque arguements from the victims of serbian propaganda have no place in wikipedia. Read learn then come back. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 22:53, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply
Father buried in a orthodox church but he proudly fought for the Catholic Church all his life. Where do you get your facts? 92.34.171.166 (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2023

I would like to add a painting of GKS made by Kole Idromeno aka the Albanian Michelangelo in 1890 and about its whereabouts. Source: http://www.panorama.com.al/te-pathenat-e-51-piktoreve-shqiptare-zbulohet-koleksioni/ Jansenbas1 (talk) 05:01, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 02:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2023

If Albania was founded and established as a country in 1912 how is possible that he was Albanian in that time? Albania didn't exist? 2601:151:C301:3340:3147:880:F58E:19CF (talk) 22:07, 14 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. see Albanian principalities Cannolis (talk) 22:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

The islamic view

The article is almost exclusively presenting the western-albanian view on the subject. However, there is a good volume of islamic/ottoman historiography on Sk., claiming that the western is "propaganda". Of course the islamic historiography can also be characterized as "propaganda", but the spirit of WP is to present all views, so as to produce the famous "neutral p.o.v.". Would it be proper to open a section presenting the islamic (or pro-Ottoman / Turkish) point of view? Skylax30 (talk) 19:15, 22 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Your point being? RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 12:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

KOPAŃSKI, A. B. (1997). ISLAMIZATION OF ALBANIANS IN THE MIDDLE AGES: THE PRIMARY SOURCES AND THE PREDICAMENT OF THE MODERN HISTORIOGRAPHY. Islamic Studies, 36(2/3), 191–208. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23076194

  • Ivan Kastrioti, serbo-albanian war lord (p. 195).
  • The clans of southern and central Albanians refused to join Skanderbeg.
  • Kastrioti and others received every year 1.400 golden ducats from the Pope.
WP:FRINGE on the first two. Gjon Kastrioti was most definitely not Serbo-Albanian, and some of the southern and central clans did indeed join Skanderbeg (e.g. Muzaka, Arianiti, Topia and smaller clans and groups). The last one may be true, I don't know the exact amount, but I think he did receive minimal financial aid from the Pope. Based on the fact that the paper calls Gjon Kastrioti a Serbo-Albanian warlord, the source shouldn't be used. Additionally, this isn't technically the Islamic/Ottoman view on anything - he was a Pole who converted to Islam during adulthood and was very religiously-biased in his work. Botushali (talk) 04:03, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Of course this source can't be used, since it has been decided that the article must be an albanian fiction. However, if you read Karl Hopf, which is a source in the article, citing John Musachi, you may see that Skanderbeg was 'per natura Serviano" (born Serbian). (Karl Hopf, Reise durch die Gebiete des Drin und Wardar, 1867 p. 303, citing J.Musaki (who claimed that his is relative of Sk's family):

"Perche in Albania era entrato Scanderbeg uomo valente e per natura Serviano" [1]. Have a nice day.

Have you actually read Gjon Muzaka’s work? I’m pretty certain it’s free to read online. Botushali (talk) 07:27, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
I was searching for "Gjon" + "Muzaka" but it didn't find anything. Can you paste the link here, please? However, I found Marinus Barletius' book and he doesn't mention any "Albanian" Georgius Castriotus. It doesn't even say that he was born somewhere in Albania.--Skylax30 (talk) 16:51, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Jokes aside, the memoirs of Giovanni Musachi is here, published by K. Hopf. Starts from p. 270. The "natura Serviano" is in p. 334. [2]. Of course it's free.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2023

Birthdate --> 6 May 1405

Source --> http://www.panorama.com.al/turqia-verteton-origjinen-shqiptare-te-skenderbeut-dokumentari-turk-si-i-mundi-dy-sulltanet-e-shek-xv-studiuesi-u-quajt-iskender-bey-si-pasardhes-i-aleksandrit-te-madh/ 2001:4BB8:100:382D:0:0:4DD8:875C (talk) 15:22, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

There is no document stating he was born in that day, only that St. George is celebrated, and because he is called George, he must have been born on 6 May. So in my opinion, you should not edit it that way. ShockedSkater (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. PianoDan (talk) 22:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply