Benjiboi

Current date and time is: 24 September 2008 - 03:27

I have been topic banned,Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement/Archive19#A day and a half later unjustly and without due process, IMHO, by Guy (JzG).

To avoid wikistress from what I see as homophobia and transphobia on wikipedia I often take breaks.

I will reply on this page unless you request otherwise
Please watch this page if you comment

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“ Give to every human being every right that you claim for yourself. ”

—Robert G. Ingersoll (1833–1899)

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Picture of the day

The chestnut-crowned antpitta (Grallaria ruficapilla) is a species of bird in the antpitta family, Grallariidae. It is found in Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Venezuela. It is around 18 to 23 centimetres (7.1 to 9.1 in) long, with a mass of 70 to 98 grams (2.5 to 3.5 oz). The sexes have the same plumage. Adults of the nominate subspecies G. r. ruficapilla have a rufous crown, nape, and face with an olive-colored back, rump, tail, and wings. Its throat, breast, and belly are white with ochraceous edges on some breast feathers, and olivaceous and blackish streaks on their sides and sometimes their breast. This chestnut-crowned antpitta perching on a branch was photographed in the Río Blanco Ecological Reserve in Manizales, Colombia.Photograph credit: Charles J. Sharp

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Contents

Formatting refs

click edit to see...

Note - access date format 2008-06-16

Living Memory LGBT History Timeline from Trans perspective

A possible resource. Transgender Aging Network has launched a project - Living Memory LGBT History Timeline to assist with aging LGBT folks "It is impossible to tell without asking someone precisely which public events shaped their lives, but knowing what was likely reported in newspapers and discussed at dinner parties during a person’s lifetime may help you understand how their worldview was shaped. To offer insight into the concerns, lifestyles, and belief sets of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people who are now 50 and older, the Transgender Aging Network has constructed the following timeline showing how old they would have been when there were critical events or changes in the lives of LGBT people." Starting with the 1920s the events list can be cross-referenced with current GLBT timelines and used as a possible stepping stone to aid Trans projects and awareness. The PDF version is here [3] Html via Google is here [4]

Feminists for Life potential material

LGBT Random Picture

Starting draft page

User:Benjiboi/LGBT image quest for current pile.

LGBT Random Picture for user pages

Use {{Portal:LGBT/Pics}} or alternatively <center>{{Portal:LGBT/Pics}}</center> if you want it centered on userspace.Benjiboi

Transgeneration source

8 page interview Benjiboi 2 other interviews linked on same page. Benjiboi

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence operation Spanner link

refs date of benefit event Benjiboi

Kellan

Kellan event in 2007[5]Benjiboi

Build stub for Michael A. Gilbert per Transexual article edit request from 89.182.0.102

The term 'cross-dresser' is not exactly defined in the relevant literature. Michael A. Gilbert, professor at the Department of Philosophy, York University, Toronto, and an avowed cross-dresser himself, offers this definition Benjiboi

Sisters controversy section ideas

...because Catholicism and American politics has a vast influence on American culture or history of (discrimination, ?,?) or even the more unique and universal appearance of dress the Sisters ...

Need to find refs of criticism from within LGBT community. Benjiboi

verbiage

James Martin, S.J. the U.S. entertainment industry is of "two minds" about the Catholic Church. He argues that,

On the one hand, film and television producers seem to find Catholicism irresistible. There are a number of reasons for this. First, more than any other Christian denomination, the Catholic Church is supremely visual, and therefore attractive to producers and directors concerned with the visual image. Vestments, monstrances, statues, crucifixes - to say nothing of the symbols of the sacraments - are all things that more "word oriented" Christian denominations have foregone. The Catholic Church, therefore, lends itself perfectly to the visual media of film and television. You can be sure that any movie about the Second Coming or Satan or demonic possession or, for that matter, any sort of irruption of the transcendent into everyday life, will choose the Catholic Church as its venue.Benjiboi

William A. Donohue

review mass deletions by Mamaljulo (sp?) and restore as appropriate if no one else has. Benjiboi

Media Matters refs all have sources listed, source originals as well. Benjiboi

"Chicken and Bulls" Extortion Scam

See this. Seems worthy of an article but loads of research, possibly userfy and build. Benjiboi

User:Benjiboi/Dykes On Bikes

Compare to current and clean-off what is used already. Benjiboi

Bear (gay slang)

Maybe you can do something with this. I looked at it and tried to figure out how to incorporate it but it was too confusing for me. Of note is that the line is manufactured by American Apparel. ALLSTARecho

Gold mine! I'm digging through a bio right now but we'll deal with that soonly. Benjiboi

Gays and YouTube

• Coalition Building in Advocate.

“ The biggest breakthrough came when gay folks volunteered in droves to help organize and register people for the CNN/YouTube debate held last July at the Citadel in Charleston. "I bet 75% of the people who were manning (the registration) process were members of the community," says Warren Redman-Gress, the current executive director of AFFA. ”

Benjiboi

• Drama, intrigue, and fighting. Now this is reality TV.: Hillary, Mitt, Barack, and a unique cast of others battle it out on the campaign trail By Joanna Weiss, Boston Globe Staff / January 22, 2008.

“ November's CNN/YouTube Republican debate drew 4.5 million viewers, making it the top-rated debate in cable history. ”

• A One-Way Ticket to Disaster DAVE ITZKOFF, New York Times, December 30, 2007.

“ 'We live in a society where there are virtually no repercussions,' said Ms. Min of Us Weekly. The repeat offenders who most often populate our gossip, she said, know full well they can 'get arrested one day, walk a red carpet the next, and still have as many photographers shouting their names and wanting their pictures.'

Still, some celebrity journalists believe that while the explosion of instantaneous news media outlets has made these personalities more accountable for their transgressions, the offenses themselves haven’t necessarily grown more offensive over time.

”

Benjiboi

• Internet Sensation From Kentucky WSAZ News Dec 29, 2007, Reporter: Amanda Barren. About Sledd. Benjiboi

James Kilfedder

Closeted homophobe or severely misunderstood?

See also: Peter Tatchell § OutRage.21

• Belfast Telegraph

• this one sums his homosexuality as open secret
• this editorial in ScotsGay - "Nevertheless, Outrage has been far too kind to those gay clerics and MPs like Kilfedder who have used their power to oppress us." (ties in age of consent campaign)

• Kilfedder gets letter etc. Benjiboi

Buttock augmentation

refs and EL's deleted; research and restore article in case of notability strike. Benjiboi

and again here. Benjiboi

Men_who_have_sex_with_men

[6] ref and restore these deletions. Benjiboi

ref help on Swish (slang)

convert Harvards into cite. Benjiboi

Chris Crocker (Internet celebrity) new article

here Benjiboi

There's an interview on there somewhere as well. Benjiboi

New Crocker

article. Banjiboi

police raid

I though this existed already. build one. Banjiboi

Tim Gunn find new flickr image

Per this. Banjiboi

Harvey Milk

If needed, explanation in shift of how Jones/Temple were seen before/after mardrs and suicide.[7] Banjeboi

Excellent book from a legal perspective covering Jones connection and plenty of trial details.[8] Banjeboi

Overview statements about San Francisco history.[9] Banjeboi

White night ref. [10] Banjeboi

Time 100 biography[11] Banjeboi

Leigh Bowery

Yikes, what a mess. Do a proper read and sort out sections. Banjeboi

• Early life
• Move to London
• Career
  • Club kids, three queens?
  • Fashion designer
  • Club promoter
  • Modeling
  • Minty
• Taboo musical

Also need section, maybe in London part, about lover/roomate. Banjeboi

work up fair use for photo of Leigh & Trogan

former lovers, roomates, collaborators, etc Banjeboi

Glory hole

possible image here. Banjeboi

Possible ref for transgender history in the Polk

The original queer district: A brief history of the Polk's queer cred by J. PLASTER; August 29, 2007 Bay Guardian]. Banjeboi

Brandon Pereyda

start BLP? Banjeboi

Heteronormativity

convert bibliography to cites and then clean-up all the refs to cite format. Banjeboi

twink

PU from here.

and now from here.

and now from here Banjeboi

Also:

• Google scholar
• Previous AfD may also have some items

sources

the trans connection

A twink's guide to dressing a daddy

a Circuit (film) connection

popular London twink-haven G.A.Y.

104 stories to filter through

18 articles to filter through

twink porn

rolling stone mention

Bel Ami as specialist

Brent Corrigan twink deets and overview

56 here to sort through

Fantastic Easter Special

About 12-15 refs needed to address OR concerns. Banjeboi

Jesse Helms - Socio-political views (section notes)

• Morality
  • Racial equality
    • Blacks
    • Latins
  • homosexuality/LGBT rights
  • AIDS
  • abortion
  • National Endowment for the Arts
• Communism
  • Pinochet in Chile
  • Castro in Cuba
  • Marcos in the Philippines
  • Nicaragua
• "Senator No"
• Foreign Policy
  • United Nations
  • International trade/protectionism
  • Test ban treaty
  • International criminal courts
• Taxes
  • textiles
  • tobacco
  • Agriculture bill

Robert Mapplethorpe

Add infobox, image and start cleaning up. Banjeboi

Edit warring

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Lindsay Lohan. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Ward3001 (talk) 02:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Jeez Ward3001 you're really pushing this! You're the only one who is edit warring and it's rather puzzling why, an RfC was started because you've been deleting sourced content repeatedly. And now you're templating a regular. I certainly hope you see the four non-anon editors there as working to discuss this but you're obstructionism doesn't serve you or the article well. Banjeboi 02:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

you seem to be in the minority hold-out about including this sourced content with Kww: Consensus is not determined by counting votes. And it is especially inappropriate to revert in the middle of an RfC. The purpose of an RfC is to get a broad set of opinions, more than four or five editors.

You also may consider don't template the regulars a bit of useful advice: Not when the regulars revert in the middle of an RfC, and when you do it twice, it's getting very close to edit warring. Regular or not, I want to be sure you understand 3RR because it is very serious. Ward3001 (talk) 02:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Please dial down the heat Ward3001. If I made a mistake, which it looks like I might have, you don't need to act so hostile about it. From what i saw you were the only one opposing it's inclusion so I felt it was the right action to take. I still feel the content is fine and that you're over re-acting. Your fending off vandals on the article and elsewhere is admirable but neither myself nor Dev920 deserve such brashness nor could be considered in the same manner as all the vandals you seem to deal with. i'll save the rest of my comments when I'm up for dealing with it. best Banjeboi 02:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

There is no heat. I simply wanted to be sure you understood 3RR and its consequences. I have no problem with you making a mistake about how many opposed the edits about Ronson. What I had a problem with was your reverting in the midst of an RfC, twice. That's serious business and suggested strongly to me that at the very least you did not understand the RfC process or fully understand how consensus is determined, and possibly that you were headed toward an edit war (yes, even the regulars edit war sometimes). Now that I am more confident that you understand 3RR, there's no problem with that, although I continue to be puzzled as to why you reverted twice in the midst of an RfC. I'm not accusing you of anything, I just don't understand why you did it if you understand the RfC process.

I am no more guilty of brashness than others are of POV-pushing. I posted an RfC to get the response of the Wikipedia community so that just a few people (myself included) would not be the deciders on this issue. Then the reverts started, and I was accused (not by you) of making false claims about an editor, which was not true. I responded. There is no brashness and there is no heat, particularly in the RfC.

Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 16:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well let's move forward as this episode has undeniably served the article better and the RfC is in process. I'm no RfC or even content dispute expert so if adding content under dispute while in RfC is wrong I do apologize. I'm dealing with another RfC where quite problematic material sits there until we can get it off the article. Frankly, I'm more invested into saving articles headed for the chopping block so am less interested in working through all the workings of RfC, it seems the process is working so I'll let it be for the time. Banjeboi 21:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. And thanks for your willingness to discuss this matter. I also have a number of irons in the fire and have had a tough time keeping up with it all. Best wishes. Ward3001 (talk) 21:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

To be fair to Ward, he is also dealing with a similar situation with Sam Ronson's article. Wikimancer though is relying heavily on tabloids and pictures (from whence I assume Ward's comments about photos came) and is being a bit more aggressive. I guess that where Ward's coming from. Presumably once we have a working version thrashed out on Lohan's article we can just swap the names around and add it to Ronson's as well. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know - that explains it all a bit more. Banjeboi 22:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll help

Sure can do! By the way can you help with the Tuareg article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by YVNP (talk • contribs) 06:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have an overfull plate but if it's something specific I'll lend a hand as I'm able. Banjeboi 21:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

Thank you very much for the barnstar! I appreciate it when other editors see my work. It often gets buried in edit histories...:D Hope you're having a great day! - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 03:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

You're so welcome! Saving articles has become a bit of a passion for me and I hope you continue to see the hope in little stubby and/or messed up articles. Your work is very much needed! Banjeboi 09:20, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I have responded...

...at my talk page. Best, Happyme22 (talk) 03:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

appreciated, thank you! Banjeboi 09:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

ARS tag for AFD

Hey, I left a question on the ARS project talk page about the ARS tag on WT:AFD and I was informed you placed it there. I'm not sure it is appropriate there and I'm just curious if there was a particular reason behind the decision. You may respond here or my talk page but I would prefer it if you would join the discussion at WT:ARS. Thanks! Protonk (talk) 20:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I've replied at WT:ARS. Banjeboi 21:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Non-heterosexuals

[12] There's about 50-80 more to work through as possible sources. Banjeboi 01:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The Queen

My tribute to the Queen of country, and another way of working through my grief. Hope you like it. Jeffpw (talk) 19:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Loverly! Just the nice pause that refreshes I needed! Banjeboi 19:47, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, honey! I hope you read the summary on the right side of the screen. It says everything I think about our dear, departed Queen of Country Music. Jeffpw (talk) 19:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Have you heard of Sordid Lives and Sordid Lives: The Series, she's a major plotline in this twisted dramedy. The movie, Sordid Lives, is fab and the series is on cable but I'm sure will be leaked - probably to YouTube as well. Banjeboi 19:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

OMG! I just saw a clip/remix of the movie, and can't wait to find it! It was never released in Holland (typically), so I'll check on Amazon or Pirate to get it. Thank you for brightening my day, Benji. Now it's off to star in my own little version of Valley Of The Dolls, so cheers, and my your day be as delightful as you've made mine! Jeffpw (talk) 20:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Was it this one? If not that'll make you simply pee! Banjeboi 20:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Princess Kim

Please see the talk page. I have six solid refs saying 1961, he has 2 tabloids, one WP:OR, and only the Chigago Tribune saying otherwise. Do you really think it's fair to say there's controversy? And yes, THAT was the video that made me pee. Jeffpw (talk) 20:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I was just cleaning up the first part before I got to the talk page. I would say, since you are more familiar, try to suss out why it was misrepresented but go ahead and start fixing the article using NYTimes and a second good ref to support year of birth. Banjeboi 20:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

As you see in talk, I have six RS saying 1961. I'll look tomorrow for more info about this tempest in a teapot. Now it's off to Dusty and chemically induced sleep. Thank CHRIST for a three day weekend. Jeffpw (talk) 21:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I looked through and did revert off the whole controversy bit and put onto the talk page with response. Unless you're interested or this actually is a controversy I wouldn't invest too much into it. Like so many weirdnesses the article did get a little better! Banjeboi 21:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

You obviously didn't lived through the Jenny Gardner Nelson tragedy. Otherwise you'd see that this article must be kept pristine. Thanks for all your efforts with this vandal. Jeffpw (talk) 21:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol! Why would I watch AMC when there's so much wikidrama! Banjeboi 21:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I could give you 10,000 reasons why you should watch AMC, though I no longer have access to it. It was the first Dattime Drama to actually include social activism (protesting against the Vietnam war, AIDS storylines, first gay couple, first Daytime Drama with major Afro-American characters, etc). But the bottom line is, it gave me a family when I had none, so it will always gave a place in my heart. I actually took off work and gave a champagne brunch when Jenny and Greg finally married, and called the network to lodge an official protest when she died. I stopped watching after that, even though on an intellectual level I realize that killing off a character so she cannot ever be recast is the ultimate compliment a Daytime Drama can give to an actress and character. Jenny was like a sister to me, and I have loved Miss Delaney ever since. That's why I feel the sourcing is so important in her bio. (and on an related note: 7.5 mg of Nitrazepam, 40 mg of Valium, 10 mg of Morphine and a half a bottle of wine and I still can't sleep through the night. Sometimes I hate God--if I believed in him, anyway). Jeffpw (talk) 02:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Too true, my schedule isn't complimentary enough to watch but, presumably, DVDs would be compelling so I wouldn't shun the idea! For sleeping maybe a walk or something several hours ahead can help calm the system? Sleep disturbance is rough! Hope you get it sorted soon. Banjeboi 04:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Sweetiepie, you're a breath of normalcy in my chaotic, hate-filled life. I'd say "God bless you" if I wasn't too busy swearing at him until I was blue in the face. Jeffpw (talk) 05:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Madam! I demand that you retract the slur of normalcy immediately! I have never been so plucked, plotzed or otherwise perturbed! Banjeboi 05:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

We're talking the "new normal", honeybunch: post 9/11, post Diana, post all the horrors of the last month. Anything less than outright schizophrenia counts as normal in my book now....and even that could be classified as a normal response to a dreadful world that tries to kill us off in a psychological war of attrition. As I see it, even Britney counts as normal...and I mean her behavior before she was forcibly locked up and drugged into compliance. Definitely no offense was intended. But if an apology is needed. You're not Dick Cheney normal, if that's any consolation.Jeffpw (talk) 05:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol! Apology accepted, I was chalking it up to the nurse's outfit anyway! There's a new book out, "The Dark Side (book)”, by Jane Mayer that gives a good chain of evidence to finally apply war crimes charges to both Cheney and Rumsfeld. If you're into such bits it looks simply chilling. (review here)Banjeboi 06:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Right now I'm only reading self-help grief books and Joan Didion's The Year of Magical Thinking. But I'll check it out if I ever straighten up and fly eight. BTW, you might enjoy my latest post at Talk:Glory hole (sexual)

Lol! Swish before you swallow! Banjeboi 06:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Non-heterosexuals

I changed my vote in the deletion discussion because of all the improvements you've made to the article. Good work! Themfromspace (talk) 22:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate that, I hope the article survives. Banjeboi 04:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Fudgie Frottage

add infobox. Banjeboi

Design Industries Foundation Fighting AIDS

build stub. and hatnote for diffa. Banjeboi 08:25, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess it could be true

I never believed that anecdote that Rod Serling smoked a carton of Pall Mall a day, but I am now forced to concede it may just be true, as I am up t 7 packs a day. Jeffpw (talk) 10:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

You must cut down (or stop if possible) - smoking gives you wrinkles! And not the good kind! Banjeboi 18:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

ARS notice

Since the talk page of the ARS was just swamped in what appears to be a very poorly executed merge with the ICU (merging talk pages, really?), I'll comment here. For the ARS banner on WT:AFD, I was thinking along the lines of "The ARS participates in the articles for deletion process by..." or something of the sort. "Supporting" is a bit weird because in a way, you're working against the process a bit :p sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 18:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yikes, what a mess! Well, totally disagree that ARS is "working against the process" - indeed we are working within the process that is which demonstrates that the process is either faulty, being abused or both. Having looked at quite afew other wikiprojects they all have similar language so I'm open to finding something even more NPOV feeling but it has to work universally on all articles we have tagged. And hopefully it will be so brilliant as to be copied by other wikiprojects. Banjeboi 19:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

That's basically working against the process. But in any case, your present banner is fine - my comments were intended for you to make a specific banner intended for WT:AFD to resolve the concerns raised (I probably should have made that clear). sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 19:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I would support that as it would likely violate Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles, we have one template and should improve that. And, no, we don't work against AfD in any way, i wouldn't be a part if we did. Banjeboi 19:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll give you the process point, as it's moving the discussion away from my point (that you're working in the process makes your point pretty clear, I've gotten a little cynical lately :p). I don't see how a specific banner for WT:AFD violates WP:NDA. It isn't a disclaimer - it's a modified WikiProject tag for a community venue, not an article. I think you're taking NDA a bit too far. sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 22:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Possibly, I think there is, yet another ... wikiproject, that addresses banners specifically so I'll visit there to see if there is insight on the issue. Banjeboi 22:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)Whoa! there is a deletion wikiproject? I never knew, yet I should have guessed all the same. Protonk (talk) 23:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol! Yes there is a mire of confusion when stepping through the wikiprojects - the WikiCouncil scares me a bit - like do I need a majic ring? I've yet to find statements about not putting wikiproject templates in spots but if you find anything let me know. Adding the second tag helps justify collapsing them both so may mitigate concerns as well. We'll see! Banjeboi 23:34, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I dunno. where there is proliferation of authority the last thing you are likely to find is a straight answer. :) My guess now is that there is a wikiproject:templates or something to that affect. It would be foolish to guess otherwise. I like how the deletion project page is all sinister and grumpy. And there are no barnstars. Only stern words about mediocrity. :) Protonk (talk) 23:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Well the scissors are a tool yet can serve as a weapon - if movies are to be believed anyway! Banjeboi 23:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

ARS merger editing

Please come to the talk page for ARS or leave a more descriptive edit summary, this is devolving quickly as inclusionist seems to be reverting your reverts. I'm not saying either one is right or wrong, but something needs to be worked ou on the talk page. Protonk (talk) 19:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually Inclusionist likely needs to be blocked. There is no consensus for seemingly any of their changes to these projects. Banjeboi 19:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, I'm not taking sides. I just don't want you to get burned for reverting that stuff with a "rvv" edit summary. Protonk (talk) 19:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm happy to get singed a bit if it helps that user get a perspective on working with other editors. I've never heard of merging three projects with no discussion and they also changed multiple aspects of our project with ... no discussion, likely against consensus. Not sure what their goal is but to me it's a big mess to be cleaned up. I had better things to do that clean up after them. Banjeboi 19:47, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the cleanup efforts regardless. I'm sure he meant well. Protonk (talk) 19:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

You may be kidding yourself, I just undeleted our members list that they turned into a redirect.[13] Banjeboi 19:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Check the ARS page again. Inclusionist made a lot of edits in the last few minutes, and they may not be what your project members favor. BTW, thanks for restoring our ICU templates. Saved me much work. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 21:09, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

(sigh) I had better things to do than mop up messes! AArg. It was good to get to know WICU better though! Banjeboi 21:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, something good came of all this. :-) The wording is close enough for now. I may change it later. Thanks again. Like you, I just wasted about three or four hours of my Saturday afternoon. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 21:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not kidding myself. It's clear he made a royal mess of things and didn't ask anyone beforehand. I just don't think it is vandalism. Protonk (talk) 21:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. WP:Vandalism though states, "Repetitively and intentionally making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia" which arguably at least some of these edits were. Your point is certainly valid though that just because some are vandalistic they may not all be. Banjeboi 21:19, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I also apologize for making interveneing edits to the talk page (setting up archive 7). I haven't been to the talk pages for AIW/WICU for a while and I assumed that the merger was in order. Sorry for making the undoing of that more difficult. Protonk (talk) 21:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

No prob. I'd kinda been a bit lax in keeping an eye on WICU too, but I think the talk page is back to where it was before the redirect. Benjiboi and I have spent a good bit of valuable weekend time cleaning up after Inclusionist. I would classify most of his work as disruptive, definitely. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 21:25, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger they say. Banjeboi 21:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Optimal classification‎

Hey, since you helped with the AfD discussion with Robotshop, I was wondering if you could help me with this AfD. I was called to this discussion by one of the guys in WP:ROBO and I've been trying to reason with them, but they seem to not listen to what I have to say. Keeping the comments neutral and !voting delete apparently makes them aggravated. It would be great if you could take a look at the discussion and see from an "uninvolved party" pov, maybe you can get through to them. Any help is appreciated. Thanks a bunch. - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 19:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I've left a note. Quite an article! Banjeboi 20:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I needed someone to portray the same information without the subjective accusations. - Jameson L. Tai ^{talk ♦ contribs} 21:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they may be baiting a bit. Try to ignore it or, if needed, inquire at WT:AFD for other eyes. Banjeboi 21:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

ARS archiving

Hi Benjiboi, I totally get that you're trying to help, but I think some of the archiving and talk page reformatting you just did at Wikipedia talk:Article Rescue Squadron ended up changing the substance of my comments. Specifically, you renamed a discussion I'd started about how we should react to the merger as a merger proposal. I also think that the archiving was perhaps not ideal. People are going to be trying to figure out what's going on, and moving comments off the page and into the archive is going to make it more difficult for them to do so. I think maybe the best thing to do would be to leave the comments on page but put a little archive box around them. In particular, the parts explaining why the initial merger was done will be important to the discussion.

We're all totally thrown for a loop by the unilateral merges and I realize things are quite crazy right now, but I think leaving the discussion on the talk page for now would be very helpful. I do get that you're trying to clean up a ridiculous and sudden mess (I definitely went through a "Oh my god what happened here?!?!?" when I first saw it), but I think taking lots of comments off the talk page isn't a good way to deal with it, even though I realize your moves were well intentioned. Vickser (talk) 22:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

So, would you mind if I added the original discussion about why the person merged them back to the talk page (I'd do so in the archive box)? The way it's set up now is going to be confusing to anyone who comes to the page and doesn't know what we're talking about, and I really dislike how out of context my comments now are. I want to get a response from you before I proceed since ARS has had quite enough edit wars for one day. Vickser (talk) 22:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol! Yes, I was just going to do something like that myself after i left you a thanks on your talkpage. Banjeboi 22:43, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar, and thank you also for all your work cleaning up ARS. The unilateral merger really made quite an impressive mess. Vickser (talk) 22:47, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, impressive it was. I've added a link that may help please feel free to amend as needed. I apologize for screwing that up there was just too much all at once and I'm still cleaning up. Banjeboi 22:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

The "go check archive 8" is absolutely perfect. Thank you again and great job! Vickser (talk) 22:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

for ball culture and Willi Ninja

Deep in Vogue, a song released by Malcolm McLaren one year before the documentary film by Jennie Livingston Paris Is Burning. Madonna's "Vogue" came one year later, bringing this subculture to the mainstream audience, but it was far from the real thing.

research this. Banjeboi 00:58, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Olive branch of friendship

"And to Inclusionist, I came here because your work pretty much rendered the ARS Talkpage a messy chaos of several projects' discussion. It had been quite clean and functional up until today. When I looked at the other projects' pages ... they all redirected to ARS. I do appreciate bold but the changes you made, the merges, the redirects all need a bit more diplomacy."

I am REALLY impressed by your work on wikipedia. You are a true inclusionist who has the best interest of wikipedia in mind.

We both have something in common, the two of us, our views are hated by a good majority of the population. So I understand your reaction to my changes, when you constantly fight uphill battles, with overwhelming odds, with people who hate your views, you start getting a bunker mentality, and any radically changes to your contributions you feel are a threat. After years of my hard work being destroyed in a constant war, I have learned to use wikipolicy and wikitools as a sword. I hated it, but I was forced too, too many people with my views have been booted indefinitely by editors who use every dirty trick in the book (many which were repeated in this argument, by the way).

Caveat, if you find these comments offensive in anyway I will remove them. I am simply trying to point out our commonalities, how I understand where you are coming from, and how it will be mutually beneficial for both of us to work together. Unfortunately, true candor is often punished on wikipedia. I promise that any disagreements we have in the future I will not go straight to ANI, nor make radical changes to the project without your approval. I look forward to working with you in the future. You have already shown that your reactions can be incredibly unpredictable and the harnessing of wikitools is formidable. I offer this olive branch of friendship, at a significant risk of regretting my candor and having it blow up in my face as it has before. Inclusionist (talk)

Yes, it was a learning experience! Lol! But I do realize that you meant well. I don't agree that my views are hated by a majority but I've also been too naive so what do I know? Banjeboi 18:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

An optimistic cautionary tale

I have found in life that if you don't like someone for some reason, most people probably don't like them for the exact same reason. In other words, don't take it personally when someone on wikipedia treats you like shit.

User:Inclusionist#Some_editors_are_more_equal_than_others one of these section discusses how an admin we both have had negative dealings with repeatedly tells people to fuck off and no one does anything about his behavoir.

I have learned the hard way, that eventually an inability to get along with others catches up to you. The idea of karma and what "goes around comes around" is so true.

Admins are not immune to this. For example, one admin was so dismissive of my views, and was so belittling and threating. Her little cabal had me indefinitely banned. But later she left Wikipedia in complete disgrace, giving up her powers, because so many wikipedians despised her. She had duplicated the way she treated me too many times.

My own inability to get along with others has been punished a million ways, and since I have little power and so few alliances, tends to catch up to me before most admins.

So this section is not only a optimistic note that this admin will eventually get his just deserves for treating you the way he did, but it is a cautionary one too: like admins, your own behavior will catch up to you (or has caught up with you) too as it has with me. Inclusionist (talk) 17:37, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm most concerned that they find peace. Frankly they have had something in their lives that has allowed them to treat others in this manner. There's some essay about "everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden" which speaks to this. Banjeboi 18:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I know for me: "Frankly they have had something in their lives that has allowed them to treat others in this manner." that is the case :) I never fit in here in America, and I am so eager to move back overseas for the rest of my life: anywhere overseas (except maybe Canada--too much like America). Glad we can talk. Inclusionist (talk) 18:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem - and there are many places in the States that are fine, maybe just explore more - and really the rest of the world also has its own issues so I think it's more a trade-off. Banjeboi 18:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I looked at the changes from the day before I started editing, and today. There is not much difference now. Inclusionist (talk) 21:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Huh? I'm dealing with quite a few articles at once so unsure what you mean? Banjeboi 21:23, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

TUSC token 32400e9fb9e2d43394e8f3e4a214ae22

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

This and That

I downloaded Sordid Lives! Whata hoot! Thanks for ther tip, and I can't believe it didn't get wide distribution. Anything with Delta Burke and Olivia Newton John has got to be an instant classic!

I made another Tammy video--Ode To Billy Joe. What a technical challenge that was. And I don't remember if I ever showed you the Jeannie C. Riley Videos I made. You might like them. I made two, actually, so check my channel for the other one.

Thanks, too, for your valuable help on Princess Kim. Lord, editing here can be even harder than grief. I had a Neely O'Hara evening last night, so now I am emulating Maria, and am tucking myself in for the night. 5:00am wake up call, patients to save, blah blah blah. Hope you're well and happy. Love, Jeffpw (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2008 (UTC)