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→‎Proposal to delete unsourced terms: I think it's time to start pruning again.
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== evolution of the identity/term ==
== original research ==

I don't have sources, therefore I don't want to make an edit, however, in my experience, while hirstuteness is still very much associated with being a bear, it no longer seems to be a disqualifier if someone who self identifies as a bear (or with the bear community) is not very hairy. It seems to have more to do with overall body size/fat than hair these days. Even the reference to Homer Simpson being a bear, for example. Homer is not hairy, he is only large. "Panda bears" are to Asian bears, yet Asians are often not hairy at all.

I think it has more to do with an overall "scruffiness" ...meaning that other masculine traits, in addition to a large body size, may make up for a lack of body hair. Often having a full beard seems to make up for a lack of body hair to many and seems to be more important as a signifier of being a part of the bear community.

A similar thing applies to otters. Not all otters are extremely hairy. If anything, an otter is somewhat of a replacement term for "chaser" which some find derisive or othering. If you are a smaller guy who identifies with the whole set of aesthetics surrounding bear culture and are attracted to larger men and associate within those social circles, you will be considered an otter regardless of body hair. Again, it has more to do with scruffiness and beards and identity.

I think something about body hair not being a requirement should be added in regards to the evolution of the identity.

The bear "community" seems to include rugged, less fashion-conscious, scruffy guys of all sizes who don't identify with and eschew traditional ideas of gay attractiveness. The part about muscle bear subculture seems to address those bears who do embrace many of the traits of mainstream culture, but most self identifying bears these days are pretty average looking guys who are into other average guys. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:98B:380:2140:2811:81B1:59CD:3059|2601:98B:380:2140:2811:81B1:59CD:3059]] ([[User talk:2601:98B:380:2140:2811:81B1:59CD:3059#top|talk]]) 20:57, 26 February 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Gender ==


While Bears have included cisgender men since the beginning of the subculture, Bear-identified cisgender women and transgender men have been recognized as part of Bear culture since the late 2000s (see "A woman in the bear community" by Iz Connell and the interview "Lesbears and Transbears: Dykes and FTMs as Bears" in the 2009 revised Bears on Bears: Interviews & Discussions book).
citation needed everywhere. a lot of this article reads as original research and may warrant the tag. it should be cleaned up or we should add the tag
{Original research}} --[[User:Extrabatteries|Extrabatteries]] ([[User talk:Extrabatteries|talk]]) 00:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


I bring this up because while I'm not sure how relevant including a detail like this would be on the page (as again, most Bears are cis men), it may help general readers understand why "Ursula" is included on the list. I'm prematurely adding this to the page, but if it seems too much like a corollary, it'll at least be in the page's discussion. ([[User:Bluesprucedude]])([[User talk:Bluesprucedude|talk]]) 16:32, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
== Propose adding section ==


== Newly emerging internet in the mid-eighties? ==
Should there be a link to connect this article to the [[Fat acceptance movement]] page? --[[User:Extrabatteries|Extrabatteries]] ([[User talk:Extrabatteries|talk]]) 00:06, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


I'm not sure if that part is correct. - [[User:Tournesol|Tournesol]] ([[User talk:Tournesol|talk]]) 09:25, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
== Pop Culture ==


== Heterosexual identification ==
For quite a long time there was a section listing the numerous places where 'bear' was mentioned in mainstream and pop culture. The list began growing bigger and bigger as the bear community got more exposure, and ultimately was so big that it began getting smaller again. Now it's gone completely. Though I understand wikipedia is not a place to just dump a list in an article, I do think it bears (ha!) mentioning that this relatively small sub-culture has become part of the general lexicon due to numerous appearances in mainstream culture. [[User:CouplandForever|CouplandForever]] ([[User talk:CouplandForever|talk]]) 04:07, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:Wow, I don't know how I missed the section completely. I really thought it was gone. I am going to clean it up though. [[User:CouplandForever|CouplandForever]] ([[User talk:CouplandForever|talk]]) 04:08, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


I wonder why isn't there any mention of Bear not being only a homosexual identifier.
== Proposal to delete unsourced terms ==
It is very much used in the heterosexual scene too.
In fact we have quotes from people behind XLbear that say it is not about being gay or straight but a state of mind.


https://www.straight.com/life/1029806/savage-love-can-straight-male-call-themselves-bear [[User:Kane 1371|Kane 1371]] ([[User talk:Kane 1371|talk]]) 10:32, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
The section #Terminology is stuffed with dubious terms, some I suspect of being jokes rather than common cultural terms. I propose all those that are unsourced (most of them) are deleted. Any objections? --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 11:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
:I agree, and think that only those terms that are more widely known and used should suffice for the section. [[User:Fumitol|<font color="#000000">'''Fumitol'''</font>]]&#124;[[User talk:Fumitol|<font color="#696969
">'''talk'''</font>]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Fumitol|<font color="#C0C0C0">'''cont'''</font>]] 04:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
:Okay, as it has been 5 days since my proposal I have trimmed unsourced terms (some of which may have been read as offensive). I suggest any terms added are correctly sourced and any re-added without sources promptly deleted as failures against [[WP:V]]. --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 12:26, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
:: The ''References in popular culture'' sec. is precisely the type of minutiae we do not need. I recommend it be mostly deleted, perhaps replaced with streamlined general examples. This type of detail even when referenced simply doesn't meet the standard of significance. [[User:Djathinkimacowboy|<span style="color:#800080">'''Djathink'''</span>]][[User talk:Djathinkimacowboy|<span style="color:#FF00FF">'''imacowboy'''</span>]] 23:18, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
::I think it's time to start pruning again. [[User:Doctor Whom|Doctor Whom]] ([[User talk:Doctor Whom|talk]]) 16:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:21, 26 September 2024

Former featured article candidateBear (gay culture) is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 31, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted

evolution of the identity/term

[edit]

I don't have sources, therefore I don't want to make an edit, however, in my experience, while hirstuteness is still very much associated with being a bear, it no longer seems to be a disqualifier if someone who self identifies as a bear (or with the bear community) is not very hairy. It seems to have more to do with overall body size/fat than hair these days. Even the reference to Homer Simpson being a bear, for example. Homer is not hairy, he is only large. "Panda bears" are to Asian bears, yet Asians are often not hairy at all.

I think it has more to do with an overall "scruffiness" ...meaning that other masculine traits, in addition to a large body size, may make up for a lack of body hair. Often having a full beard seems to make up for a lack of body hair to many and seems to be more important as a signifier of being a part of the bear community.

A similar thing applies to otters. Not all otters are extremely hairy. If anything, an otter is somewhat of a replacement term for "chaser" which some find derisive or othering. If you are a smaller guy who identifies with the whole set of aesthetics surrounding bear culture and are attracted to larger men and associate within those social circles, you will be considered an otter regardless of body hair. Again, it has more to do with scruffiness and beards and identity.

I think something about body hair not being a requirement should be added in regards to the evolution of the identity.

The bear "community" seems to include rugged, less fashion-conscious, scruffy guys of all sizes who don't identify with and eschew traditional ideas of gay attractiveness. The part about muscle bear subculture seems to address those bears who do embrace many of the traits of mainstream culture, but most self identifying bears these days are pretty average looking guys who are into other average guys. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:98B:380:2140:2811:81B1:59CD:3059 (talk) 20:57, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gender

[edit]

While Bears have included cisgender men since the beginning of the subculture, Bear-identified cisgender women and transgender men have been recognized as part of Bear culture since the late 2000s (see "A woman in the bear community" by Iz Connell and the interview "Lesbears and Transbears: Dykes and FTMs as Bears" in the 2009 revised Bears on Bears: Interviews & Discussions book).

I bring this up because while I'm not sure how relevant including a detail like this would be on the page (as again, most Bears are cis men), it may help general readers understand why "Ursula" is included on the list. I'm prematurely adding this to the page, but if it seems too much like a corollary, it'll at least be in the page's discussion. (User:Bluesprucedude)(talk) 16:32, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Newly emerging internet in the mid-eighties?

[edit]

I'm not sure if that part is correct. - Tournesol (talk) 09:25, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heterosexual identification

[edit]

I wonder why isn't there any mention of Bear not being only a homosexual identifier. It is very much used in the heterosexual scene too. In fact we have quotes from people behind XLbear that say it is not about being gay or straight but a state of mind.

https://www.straight.com/life/1029806/savage-love-can-straight-male-call-themselves-bear Kane 1371 (talk) 10:32, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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