Talk:Jack Abramoff
- Archive 1 Friday 12th August 2005 Talk:Jack Abramoff/Archive 1 I made some substantial edits to the page and archived the entire earlier talk since it was mostly to do items since dealt with.--Gorgonzilla 23:40, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
COPYVIO
This article and it's sister screed are embarrassments to wikipedia. They're essentially the same and both reflect the authors politocal hatred and zeal. Both also have severe irredemable copyright problems and are and embarrasment to wikipedia. They need to be deleted immediately. --John Henry 03:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
The Indian tribes scandal
This area is a mess, I have tried to clean it up a bit and structure it better. It may be best to create a new page on the tribes scam and point the Reed, Norquist etc pages to it.
Basically we need fewer facts and more context. At the moment the page is simply a list of transactions that may or may not have been legit with a strong implication that they were not legit.--Gorgonzilla 23:40, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
I moved the whole scandal to its own page. This makes much more sense since although Abramoff is a major player in that scandal there are several others who are significant players, in particular Ralph Reed. I am not doing this to hide the scandal, I think that people looking for info on it know that there is more than one player.--Gorgonzilla 00:31, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
The email trail
This section does not appear to say very much that is already said. It should probably go.--Gorgonzilla 23:40, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually it looks pretty good in the context of the tribes scandal article so I moved it there
Isn't abramoff conected to the murder of a florida man too?
RALSTON IS ROVE’S RIGHT-HAND: ABC News reported on August 2, 2005 that Susan Ralston, Karl Rove’s long-time right-hand, testified before the grand jury. The National Journal reported, “If Karl Rove is Bush’s main man, then it’s Ralston who makes this White House go — because she’s indispensable to Rove.” According to Newsweek, Ralston was suggested to Rove by ethically-troubled lobbyist Jack Abramoff, for whom she previously served as a top aide. [ABC The Note, 8/2/05; Newsweek, 4/20/05; National Journal, 6/18/05] Israel Hernandez Personal assistant to President Bush (2001-2005)
See the SunCruz scandal. Police state that Abramoff is a person of interest in that investigation. At the moment too busy reorging the Abramoff-Reed thing. --Gorgonzilla 00:44, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
should we mention John Doolittle and the Nor Cal Morman cabal?
should we mention John Doolittle and the Nor Cal Morman cabal?
of use http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34520-2004May17.html
Who first blew the wistle on Abramoff?
five federal agencies don't just start investigating a lobbyist at the same time for no reason.
Ronnie Earle started investigation?
Ronnie Earle seems to be the guy
For over six months Earle and a grand jury investigated violations of Texas campaign finance law in the 2002 election. His ongoing investigation of two political action committees that spent a combined $3.4 million on 22 Republican Texas House races is now focused on a PAC founded by DeLay and directed by {Jack Abramoff]]. "This is an attempt to criminalize politics," claimes DeLay. "Ronnie Earle", he told reporters at his Feb. 24 press conference, is a "runaway prosecutor."
better pic need one that doesn't violated copyrights
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116389/
better info+can we use this pic?....please?
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0533/050817_news_abramoff.php
new stuff
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0829lobbyist29.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3233abramoff_indict.html (Aug 26, 2005 editorial/analysis)
I don't see anything here about Abramoff's connection to extreme right-wing Israeli politics. I recall that he played a role in getting the law through Congress that reduced aid to the Palestinians after Arafat died. Also that he raised money to train sharpshooters among the settlers. -- RWM
The murder indictment
I updated the story from the piece in the Post [1]. However this will need ongoing revision, there are clearly details that have not been given. The prosecutors clearly are investigating a link to SunCruz. Although the target is almost certainly Kidan rather than Abramoff this cannot look good for either of them. --Gorgonzilla 04:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Removal of speedy deletion tag.
I have removed the speedy delation tag placed on this article by John Henry. Tag read {{db|COPYVIO - use of copyrighted image w/o citation of reason}}. This is not a valid reason for speedy deletion, see Wikipedia:Speedy deletion. The contested image has been removed pending confirmation of source. BDAbramson talk 03:20, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Did you even read your link? Look on the right and you will find COPYVIOS as a reason for speedy deletion. Click on that link and you will be taken here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems
on that page you will see the statement "Blatant copyright infringements may now be "speedied" " Given Gorgonzilla has repeatedly infringed copyrights and for an extended period of time that clearly meets the qualification of BLATANT. Don't vandalize the tags again. --John Henry 03:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
- Please allow me to clarify the deletion policy. A copvio is a reason to speedy the image, not the article containing the image. There has been no allegation that the text of the article is copied from another source, nor would this comport with the edit history. BDAbramson talk 04:24, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Please allow me to post text from the image page (click the image to see):
"This work is copyrighted and unlicenced. It does not fall into one of the blanket fair use categories listed at Wikipedia:Fair use#Images or Wikipedia:Fair use#Audio_clips. However, the individual who uploaded this work and first used it in an article, as well as subsequent persons who place it into articles, asserts that this use qualifies as fair use of the material under United States copyright law. For each use of this image, please provide a detailed rationale as to why this image qualifies as fair use.
Gorgonzilla used the image. As such, it was Gorgonzilla's COPYVIO not the uploaders'. Since you appear to be running cover for Gorgonzilla who thinks the image is of "Grover Norquist" - I've decided to report his extended crime to the image's owner. He is an embarrassment to Wikipedia and to all producers of intellectual property everywhere. Wikipedia's cavallier attitude toward Gorgonzilla's crimes are similar embarrassments. --John Henry 04:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
- This is not a valid criterion for speedy deletion. Please read WP:CSD. Thanks. Guettarda 04:54, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
The same user tried to do the same at the Reed-Abramoff article as well. He also accused me of a 5th revert today which is odd, unless he is as I suspect LJS returned yet again and thinks that the 3RR applies to Wikipedia as a whole. I strongly suggest it is time to cfp the user and ask for a very long prohibition. --Gorgonzilla 03:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Attempt to delete important facts
The most significant fact about Abramoff at this point is the fact that he is under indictment for his involvement in a $30 million fraud. The murder of Boulis and the payments made by the company controlled by Abramoff and his partner to the three alleged killers is absolutely relevant.
Trying to delete these relevant facts is clearly an attempt at POV spin.
The same invididual then tried to delete all mention of the casinos article altogether. This despite the fact that it is one of the most significant political scandals in Washington today.
This looks to me like an attempt to eliminate this scandal from Wikipedia.--Gorgonzilla 03:38, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
NPOV
Can someone explain what aspects of the article are of disputed neutrality. Thanks. Guettarda 04:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
User John Henry is an astroturf sock puppet who spends his time trying to bend wikipedia articles about current events to whatever the GOP talking points of the day are. He is clearly acting in bad faith and a cfp is about to be filed. --Gorgonzilla 12:03, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
- Once again - if the {{NPOV}} is going to remain on the article you need to outline the NPOV problems here, so that they can be discussed and sorted out. Thanks. Guettarda 19:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
news on his ex-partner
Abramoff ex-partner pleads guilty to fraud charge
Speculation on guilty plea
(Moved this to Discussion after 15 December 2005)
Kidan is expected to plead guilty next week to federal conspiracy and wire fraud charges.
If the deal goes through, Kidan, who was looking at up to 30 years in prison, could now face a maximum of 10 years. That sentence could be reduced depending upon the extent of his cooperation as a witness, not only against Abramoff but also in the prosecution of the men charged in the murder of Boulis.
Lawyers for Kidan and prosecutors are finalizing the deal in which Kidan would plead guilty to one count each of conspiracy and wire fraud. A "change of plea" hearing has been set for Dec. 15. [2]