Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

If anyone would like to lead the discussion for THE SENTENCE, please let me know. Thanks!

It's been awhile since I led one...Lets give this one a spin.

William wrote: "It's been awhile since I led one...Lets give this one a spin."

Great! …William, I think I became aware of this group when you all were having a gripping discussion on Erdrich’s THE PLAGUE OF DOVES. I knew then I had to join.

ColumbusReads wrote: "William wrote: "It's been awhile since I led one...Lets give this one a spin."

Great! …William, I think I became aware of this group when you all were having a gripping discussion on Erdrich’s THE..."

As you know she is one of my favorite novelists. Definitely in my top 5.

I love when books give you more books to check out. To check out Totally Biased List of Tookie’s Favorite Books go to https://www.harpercollins.com/audio/t...

I started the book this morning. I've already completed the first chapter and there are a book length worth of plot twists in just those few pages. Erdrich's story telling prowess is undiminished.
I'm reading the ebook on a kindle (no print available at my library). There are 17 unnumbered chapters. How about a reading schedule as follows..read and background info 10/1-3. Start discussion of first 5 chapters, through "Bonne Annee", 10/3-7. next 5 through "Minnesota Goddamn" 10/8-15, next 6 chapters through "The Most Beautiful Sentence" , 10/16-23, and the final chapter "Souls and Saints" and the entire book open for discussion the last week of Oct. 10/24-31.

Kelly wrote: "I love when books give you more books to check out. To check out Totally Biased List of Tookie’s Favorite Books go to https://www.harpercollins.com/audio/t..."

Until I started reading I was totally confused by your post. Now that I know that Tookie is the books main character, I get it.

I adore this book! I read it a bit ago (and don't have time now for a re-read), so will probably hold-off until the final bit of discussion to participate, but I'm so glad y'all are reading it. ENJOY!!

I read this book a little while ago as well. I enjoyed it but perhaps didn't love it as much as I had hoped. I live in Minneapolis and not far from the bookstore that Erdrich owns, so parts of The Sentence felt very close to home. I did love Tookie though and this is most definitely a booklovers' book, an element which I greatly enjoyed.

Hey Delia & Sara, good to hear you both read the book. Hope you both can join in the discussion.

Have either of you read anything else by her?

I’ve only read The Round House by this author and absolutely loved it. But I have heard by some Erdrich devotees it’s not even close to her best work. Say what! … What books have you read by this giant of modern letters and which would you recommend?

Some background on this prolific author.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_...

https://www.britannica.com/biography/...

https://www.thriftbooks.com/a/louise-...

ColumbusReads wrote: "I’ve only read The Round House by this author and absolutely loved it. But I have heard by some Erdrich devotees it’s not even close to her best work. Say what! … What books have yo..."

Hard to say...since I've read most and its a little like picking your favorite child. I'd say just dive in and any you pick will be enjoyable. Although with this latest one we are reading, "The Sentence", there is a significant difference from the rest, that I'll talk about in the discussion.

Website of Louise Erdrich's bookstore. A centerpiece of the novel.

https://birchbarkbooks.com/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/t-...

ColumbusReads wrote: "I’ve only read The Round House by this author and absolutely loved it. But I have heard by some Erdrich devotees it’s not even close to her best work. Say what! … What books have yo..."

My favorites are The Plague of Doves (2008) and LaRose (2016). These two, plus The Round House, are considered a trilogy dealing with themes of justice. LaRose left me feeling like Erdrich had spun some Ojibwe magic on me...the storytelling was just so powerful I felt like I read it in a semi-hypnotic state. :-)

I have only read a few of her early works, but I understand she has rewritten parts of Love Medicine, which she originally published in 1984 and which won the National Books Critics Circle Award. I think her latest version of Love Medicine is the 2009 edition, so you might look for that one. I have it on my TBR and hope to read it in 2023. Really, you can do as William says and just dive in anywhere. :-)

I loved LA ROSE. My comment at the time I read it: “This story grabbed me by the throat and never let go. It is dark, unsettling, sad, hopeful. It is magical and oh so human. The characters intrigue, delight, confuse, and provoke. Praise from the Washington Post that resonated with me: ““The recurring miracle of Erdrich’s fiction is that nothing feels miraculous in her novels. She gently insists that there are abiding spirits in this land and alternative ways of living and forgiving that have somehow survived the West’s best efforts to snuff them out.””

I also really liked THE BEET QUEEN, THE PAINTED DRUM, and SHADOW TAG.

And I thought THE SENTENCE was simply fabulous.

As you can tell, I’m an Erdrich fan and I’ve read nearly everything she has written.

Thank you, William, for the link to the article in the NYTimes. About a third of the way through and am also in awe of the writing.

ColumbusReads wrote: "Hey Delia & Sara, good to hear you both read the book. Hope you both can join in the discussion.

Have either of you read anything else by her?"

I’ve only read a handful of her other writing. Future Home of the Living God, Love Medicine (read decades ago & should revisit), some of her kids books. I started reading The Night Watchman but didn’t have the time to get really immersed and it felt like a special book so I’ve been saving it.

I will also say that Erdrich herself is a fixture around the Twin Cities and every interaction I have experienced with her or witnessed has proven her out to be absolutely the nicest human being!

Well, I’m going to do my very best to read within the discussion schedule rather than reading beyond it. It’s a much more enjoyable discussion experience for me and it eliminates having to take so many notes.

I’ve read the first five chapters of the book so far and here’s what I found enjoyable: a) the writing is top notch and I didn’t expect anything less. b) I love books about books or when books are mentioned in novels so of course I like this. Thanks to Kelly for providing Tookie’s book list. How did you ever know this was available? I’m going to check it out once I finish the book. I want to enjoy coming across them when reading the book. c) I like how she titles sections within chapters. How unique is that! Never seen that done before in a book. d) bits of humor thrown throughout, ““And think about what time does to the bosom…By the time you’re sixty they’ll all look like The Scream.

But, even with all of that I’m not connecting with the book so far. The story doesn’t grab me. It doesn’t help that I never really cared for stories with ghosts. It’s the reason why I never connected to Jesmyn Ward. As good as her writing is (and it is good) the ghosts in her stories are a turnoff for me. Hopefully The Sentence will get better as I delve deeper into it.

ColumbusReads wrote: "Well, I’m going to do my very best to read within the discussion schedule rather than reading beyond it. It’s a much more enjoyable discussion experience for me and it eliminates having to take so ..."

Read on Columbus, read on. I had most of the same critiques as you. And I'm definitely in the camp of folks who dislike ghosts being responsible for human interactions. And to be honest I thought this was gonna be my first Erdrich fail in that it felt a little like a swarmy romance novel for a spell but things change...

I wish that I didn't have to read ahead of the schedule but my library system only allows 14 day ebook check outs with no renewals. hopefully I'll be able to borrow another copy for the rest of the month from another system.

The first chapter introduces us to Tookie and her deception at the hand of those she thought were friends. Tookie is a fan of statistics and at her sentencing for a crime she unwittingly committed, says that more native women in Minnesota are incarcerated than in all of Canada and Europe combined. She ponders why Native women are always at the bottom of the bottom or the worst of anything possible. She says, "Maybe we are on the wrong side of the English language". I found this remark both humorous and poignant.

Any other thoughts on the first chapter? There is a lot of sly humor in it.

ColumbusReads wrote: "Hey Delia & Sara, good to hear you both read the book. Hope you both can join in the discussion.

Have either of you read anything else by her?"

Oh, yes, and I've loved everything so far. I'll keep reading into her backlist in the future. So far I can highly recommend:
The Round House
The Night Watchman
and
The Master Butchers Singing Club
That last one is very different from the others...read the blurb before you dive in, just so you know if it's for you or not.

William wrote: "There is a lot of sly humor in it."

I love Tookie! And her humor. And even the ghost. Though I've never seen a ghost, I live quite closely with the memories and personalities of those who pass away around me and of my ancestors, so I enjoyed Tookie's interactions with the ghost a lot.

I just started the book yesterday. I'm about 30% in and I love it so far. It's very funny. The description of Flora made me think of the Native version of Rachel Dolezal.

William wrote: "I wish that I didn't have to read ahead of the schedule but my library system only allows 14 day ebook check outs with no renewals. hopefully I'll be able to borrow another copy for the rest of the..."

Yes, I like yourself found some of the material compelling, humorous and poignant. The line you referenced about being on “the wrong side of the English language” to be one of them. There have been several more. But I’ve also thought at times it came off as preachy or moralizing while trying to get her point across. It’s almost as if she’s not respecting her audience to comprehend it without sort of browbeating us into it.

Tootsie in her cell is visited by a greenbottle fly. To her it represents "an emissary of all I thought I would never be mine again..beauty, ecstasy, surprise" Too bad in her sleep she smeared it with the palm of her hand. "I was fucked. I took it's spirit as a sign that I would walk free and here I'd killed it."

Pretty dark humor...

Fresh out of prison Tookie is sampling soups from the world over (Egusi with fufu!!), when she runs into Pollux the cop who arrested her. He proposes and she accepts. In italics, that I took to be her internal dialogue, is written " The door is open Go!". This is a pretty important mantra which I missed upon first reading.

This novel is a departure from most of Erdrich's tomes that I've read in the past in a number of ways. It's urban setting versus the usual rural or woodlands , the single family dynamic as opposed to the usual extended family and inter-generational tribal characters. The current events instead of historical and the autobiographical nature of the story. Did anyone else take note of these departures? Did we approve?

I read this novel last year, excited to get it at my library since I’m a follower (Love Medicine, The Round House, stories— all excellent). I agree with you, William, about the departure from her usual style. The further you get into this novel, the more there is a perceptible reason for that choice. I loved SO much about it, including where she goes with the ghost.

William wrote: "This novel is a departure from most of Erdrich's tomes that I've read in the past in a number of ways. It's urban setting versus the usual rural or woodlands , the single family dynamic as opposed ..."

The only book I read by her and thus the only one I can compare it to is The Round House. The setting for that book was the North Dakota reservation which is where I would typically place her books. TRH is considered her most accessible book by far and is a rather straightforward read? I thought it was also emotionally jarring and the story simply riveting. I expected a more complex and multi-layered story with THE SENTENCE and so far that’s what I’ve gotten. I’m anxious to see what happens in the second half of the book and also my thoughts on it compared to TRH.

I’m also curious to how this book compares to the other Erdrich titles you read. Where would you place it among the others?

Glad to be discussing this book on all days today (no, not Columbus Day even though I’ve had well wishes today) 😁

William wrote: "Fresh out of prison Tookie is sampling soups from the world over (Egusi with fufu!!), when she runs into Pollux the cop who arrested her. He proposes and she accepts. In italics, that I took to be ..."

I don’t recall that either.

I mentioned earlier that I love that this is all things books. It’s not just that there’s a slew of books mentioned but it’s all-things books here. The bookstore itself, the books mentioned, she talks about ebooks and the kindle in particular, and also Jarvis dad is a writer who may or may not be writing auto-fiction.

Besides "Mosquito", by Gayle Jones, I can't think of another book where the author makes themselves a character in the fiction. Can we think of any others? How do we feel about this trope?

It took a minute for me to be sure that Erdrich was writing about herself when I first read the passages.

In a preview to next months discussion, Tookie claims Octavia Butler as one of her favorite authors. She goes on to say that her all-time favorite character is Lilith, "who has lots of transcendent sex in a menage a trois that includes a human and an extraterrestrial...
I read pretty much all of Butlers works and it seems like this is something I'd remember. Don't know how I missed it but it sure seems like its time to reread some of her works!

The book is open for discussion through the chapter "Minnesota Goddamn". (a pretty pivotal one imo).

This is my second novel by Erdich. My first was LaRose which I enjoyed. I checked out the audiobook from my library, so I've finished the book. I loved it and that's all I will say for now.

In Minnesota Goddamn Pollux can be seen with his head in his hands repeating nononono...over and over. He said he had just visited the store at which George Floyd had been accused of passing a bad check or counterfeit 20 and met this death at the hands of the Minneapolis police. He and Tookie and Hetta seem to be in state of disbelief and genuinely moved to tears. The scene was moving and quite realistic in my opinion and I was tearing up as I read it. I felt that these characters were actual allies in the Black and Brown struggle. I also realized that in my personal life I've never held an actual conversation with those of other races about the how George Floyd's murder affected them, if at all. I thought this chapter provided a window not often seen on how some outside of the Black community view us. That alone was worth the price of admission.

William wrote: "...this chapter provided a window not often seen on how some outside of the Black community view us. That alone was worth the price of admission."

Agreed, William, agreed.

William wrote: "I felt that these characters were actual allies in the Black and Brown struggle. I also realized that in my personal life I've never held an actual conversation with those of other races about the how George Floyd's murder affected them, if at all. I thought this chapter provided a window not often seen on how some outside of the Black community view us."

This speaks to the power of books -- and sharing stories with each other. I love this!

William wrote: "In Minnesota Goddamn Pollux can be seen with his head in his hands repeating nononono...over and over. He said he had just visited the store at which George Floyd had been accused of passing a bad ..."
Yes it was. I remember feeling a combination of emotions-surprise, awe, "someone gets it,"-when I read it.

I'm not a big fan of ghost stories but what about the theory that book can not only figuratively but literally kill you. Tookie obviously believes the book killed Flora and went to great lengths to keep it buried. Flora's ghost story sort of redeems itself when we find out that Flora's past was not only buried but also, in today's language, "appropriated".

I suppose no one would object to opening up the entire book for discussion a couple days early. Seeing that the book was such a departure from Erdrich's usual oeuvre, did we like it? What did you like most or least about it?

I haven't read any other Erdrich novels, I think I kept putting it off because I couldn't make up my mind where to start. I will often read a book by an author and like it so much I put off reading any other books by that author for fear none of them will live up to my first best experience. One example of that would be Saul Bellow's Henderson the Rain King, which is solidly on my top ten books of all time, but I finally read his first two novels (Dangling Man and The Victim) and was so disappointed and put off it has actually dimmed my feelings for Henderson. Anyway, this is my first (and possibly my last) Erdrich novel, and it was better than I'd ever hoped for.

I loved the wry humor ("Budgie lay slack-jawed on stained pillows, squinting in perplexity... It was like he'd been mildly puzzled to death."), and I loved that Erdrich was a background-ish character who brought her bookstore (and therefore all independent bookstores) front and center as a major character. Mostly I loved Tookie and her relationship with Pollux and her daughter.

Tookie is such an honest character. It is a pure pleasure to spend my time inside her heart and head. When the book began with Budgie's death and Danae's hysterics I couldn't connect with the histrionics or the weirdness and thought I wasn't going to make it if the rest of the book read like that part. But it didn't, and Tookie became real very quickly after that, which I attribute to the honesty of her character. I was able to understand Pollux because of Tookie's constant self-searching, and I loved her relationship with her daughter. I have three daughters. Tookie was such a normal mom, and Hetta was perfect.

I knew the ghost was just a vehicle for the story to ride through on and didn't really pay much attention to it, except how it affected Tookie. I was glad, however, that the ghost was present throughout, because so much of tribal belief systems are multi-layered and ripe with the supernatural and it just made Tookie and the whole story more authentic for me.

I was also really affected by the section on the killing of George Floyd, and like you William, I had never considered the reactions of other people of other colors to such an injustice. It was new information for me, and I felt quite an emotional impact (again) to the killing, even more so now because of Tookie's and Pollux's response to it.

Actually, there were a lot of revelations for me in this novel - the benefit of Tookie's honesty. I was particularly embarrassed by the list of Questions For Tookie by White people, tho' I'm happy to say I'm not guilty of committing any of them... just pure damn luck probably:

Can you direct me to the nearest ayahuasca ritual?
Can you sell me some vine of the dead?
How do I register to be an Indian?
How much Indian are you?
Can you appraise my turquoise necklace?
Can you sell it for me?
What's a good Indian name for my horse/dog/hamster?
How do I get an Indian name?
Do you have an Indian saying about death?
What's acultural Indian thing that would fit into our funeral service?
How do I find out if I'm an Indian?
Are there any real Indians left?

For me, one of the most impactful sentences was toward the end while they were discussing Flora's identity crisis, "The thing is, most of us Indigenous people have to consciously pull together our identities. We've endured centuries of being erased and sentenced to live in a replacement culture. So even someone raised strictly in their own tradition gets pulled toward the white perspective." Thus the title, I'm guessing.

This book is so rich with stories and revelations and amazing characters, not to mention book lists! My hope is that someday Indians won't feel the need to protect their traditions and stories from a White culture that ignorantly usurps their symbols and truths. My hope is that we can find a way to trust and share with each other, because I believe that traditional Indian understanding of the land beneath our feet and the relationship with nature is critical to the survival of the human species, and maybe someday they will offer to teach us and to share their knowledge, which we so desperately need. If we are willing to learn.

Janice (JG) wrote: "I haven't read any other Erdrich novels, I think I kept putting it off because I couldn't make up my mind where to start. I will often read a book by an author and like it so much I put off reading..."

Wow..what a thoughtful synopsis. There was a lot to consume and reflect upon in the book.
I would say that the first chapter (of which you had reservations) was more in the traditional mode of Erdrich's novels, but at breakneck speed. But from the second chapter on the story diverged from the usual to a slower tale in an urban setting of familial love and tensions.
I had forgotten about that list of questions..I'm sure that any Black person could easily edit them to reflect on the awkward and asinine query's they've had to answer from clueless white folks.
And Flora's attempt at rewriting her past brings to mind the Rachel Doleza saga, of a white NAACP director who identified as Black.
Besides the brutality endured by both of our communities, identity and unsuccessful attempts to bury the past continue to haunt us.

Of the many truisms that Tookie expressed, this one really resonated. In "The Most Beautiful Sentence", chapter she says, "You can't get over things you do to other people as easily as you get over things they do to you".

Did other readers, like me, peruse Tookie's book list and see how many of her choices we also read? I actually have read a decent amount of those and the ones I have I've all rated highly. We have similar tastes!

William wrote: "Of the many truisms that Tookie expressed, this one really resonated. In "The Most Beautiful Sentence", chapter she says, "You can't get over things you do to other people as easily as you get over..."

That sentence hits home. I still think of times where I may have hurt someone decades later. Charles Blow of the NYT said something to the effect in a recent interview that rage & anger is hard for people to hold on to for extensive periods of time. I'd agree & add that guilt & shame can last forever.

I downloaded the list onto my phone & recreated it here on GoodReads. I've been a fan of Erdrich since undergrad. Tracks changed my perspective. So glad this discussion is flourishing!

Any final thoughts about the book? I'm still in thrall of Erdrich's writing prowess. I at first thought I would dislike the book. It started off at first with a bang and then seemed to lose its momentum. But the protest scenes and family ties and buried history pulled it all together for me by novels end. She reminded us that buried secrets always come back to haunt us (get it). I was even tolerant of the ghost trope by the end. Given America's obsession with censuring and burying any teaching of its slave holding and genocidal past, the book couldn't be more timely.
This also the first Erdrich book I've read that is centered on a small family unit in an urban setting rather than the usual extended tribal families on a rez or in a pastoral setting. And although they had minor roles, the inclusion of a few African-American characters was refreshing. I enjoyed the book and would recommend it.

I finally finished the book today. I think it took me about a month to read it. I thought it was okay. I felt like it tried to cover too many things. I was very interested in the book the seemed supernatural and Flora but for me that kind of got lost with the COVID and BLM angles. I appreciate those things being in the book but I felt like too much time was spent on that. In general I’m always critical of books that I feel could be shorter and that’s how I feel with this book.

wow. so grateful for the archives of book conversations here. i just read the sentence with a local bookclub in my region, and im so glad i did. my very first edrich! (i took notes on some of yalls favorites so i can check those out too.)

there's so many things spinning around in my head about this book, but the thing that stands out most right now is how so very grateful i am for stories about the covid pandemic and summer 2020 uprising. this one was a pleasant surprise, bc i had no idea any of those story lines were going to be covered until i was immersed in tookie's story and reading them.

again, loved reading this archive to be able to review and notice things about the book. grateful to everyone who contributed to the conversation. thank you.