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August 1

Double click vs single click

Would someone please advise how I can best explain to my 9 year old grandson and 84 years old mother-in-law; who it is that dictates when and why it is necessary to double-click certain icons and weblinks when at other times a single click will suffice, although there are no apparent guidelines available at the point of action, it being a question of trial and error. And for my own erudition, is there a technical necessity for one procedure against the other?. Or is this just a geek thing that mere mortals such as myself are not permitted to understand? And will it ever transpire that an industry-wide protocol might emerge that standardises single or double clicking as the consistent norm? Thanks. Dinosaur.92.10.74.204 (talk) 00:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Speaking as a non-expert, just an end-user: The purpose of single clicking is to highlight an icon without opening its contents. Single-clicking is used for hyperlinks because you don't need to highlight them. Single-clicks generaly turn the mouse pointer into a pointing hand. It's possible to set icons to open on single click; what's your operating system? Vimescarrot (talk) 00:26, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Under Windows - that's true. The history of this is rather contorted. The first computer to come with a mouse was the Mac (well - actually, the "Lisa" - which was it's immediate and short-lived predecessor). Apple insisted on shipping it with a single-button mouse (on the grounds that if it only has one button - you can't press the wrong button!) - that meant that if there was more than one reason to point at something and click on it, you had to use single, double - and sometimes triple - clicks to identify which of the things you needed to do. This winds up being pretty stupid - sure, with only one button you can't click the wrong button - but you can certainly click that one button the wrong number of times. Apple later added shift-click, ctrl-click and apple-button-click - and double-clicked versions of that. Now, that decision became kinda 'ingrained' into the psyche of people writing point-n-click user interfaces. Microsoft decided (in their inimitable way) to make matters even worse by having mice with ever increasing numbers of buttons - AND having single and double-clicks AND ctrl/alt/meta clicks. But this is not true of all operating systems - X-window based systems such as Linux and BSD Unix originally made do with only single-clicks and only two button mice. But that too is slipping and ctrl/alt/shift clicks are getting more common in complex software packages. I recall that on the old SunOS operating system, when selecting text, one click selected a letter, two selected a word, three an entire line or sentence and a gargantuan, knuckle-busting quadruple-click would grab an entire paragraph. SteveBaker (talk) 01:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

"which was it is immediate and short-lived predecessor" - (rolls eyes at SB's eccentric version of English) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course in most browsers in Windows double clicking selects a word, and triple clicking selects a paragraph (quad clicking resets or something similar) Nil Einne (talk) 08:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

X has used three-button mice and modifier-clicks at least since the early 1990s when I first used it, and probably from the beginning. The Xerox Alto had a three-button mouse in the 1970s (see this gallery). Lots of old X apps expect a third button and won't work without it. X on PC clones had to get by with two buttons because that's all the Microsoft Mouse had. -- BenRG (talk) 10:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Web links are always single-clicked. It annoys me to no end watching people double-click on web pages. --Nricardo (talk) 02:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

If you're in a browser, you won't have to double-click. Double-clicking is reserved almost exclusively for windows explorer and other areas that are directly a part of windows. opening icons, files, and folders is double-click.

In WinXP you can change a mouse setting so that you only have to single click. I hate double-clicking, its seems like some nerdy idiosyncracy of Mr. Gates that has become frozen into operating systems. I hate computer mice too, but there seems to be no affordable alternative. 78.147.244.14 (talk) 14:04, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

goin mad

Can you just go completely raving mad overnight, or do you work up to it over some time. i am not mad, just interested if it could happen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.68.48 (talk) 00:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably, but there would most likely be a pre-existing condition and a trigger event. A deeply traumatic experience will cause PTSD and other conditions to otherwise perfectly healthy people though. Some conditions related to bi-polar disorders do not manifest until the person is in their twenties, but likely not overnight. But will someone just one day wake up and become a lunatic, no, likely not. Taggart.BBS (talk) 01:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course you can to go mad overnight. Just go and do something you would never normally do, buy that round the world ticket, buy those expensive shoes, get drunk and have sex with a complete stranger, or some other "insane" thing. As for the medical condition, Taggart's answer above seems to cover the main points. Astronaut (talk) 02:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the above and say yes you can. See the above PTSD, Fugue state, Psychosis. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 04:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I would think a brain tumor reaching a threshhold point of some kind, and maybe various other kinds of head trauma, might trigger "madness" or at least significant alteration in behavior. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:07, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't think a medical condition is necessary, I guess it depends on the character of a person, the psychological side (I know people will argue that the psychological side is dependent on the physical side). If you are one with a history of excessive emotional responses, rapid mood swings and the like, I suppose one can't rule it out that you could just plain freak out when something breaks, when you reach a tipping point. IMHO. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:55, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a worthless non-expert impression, but I think that some drugs (e.g. hallucinogens) and some techniques of inquisitors, interrogators and torturers can induce psychosis, hallucinations and other severe mental distortions rather quickly. —— Shakescene (talk) 08:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Excluding drugs and suchlike there normally is some signs that people can point out afterwards, but it is perfectly possible for a person to be considered to be okay one day and to be talking to parking meters the next. Dmcq (talk) 20:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

What sort of activity has the original questioner found to bring one proximal to madness? Bus stop (talk) 14:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Editing wikipedia could do it. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. Bus stop (talk) 14:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

You were still thinking? Obviously the treatment hasn't lasted long enough. (Rx: unblock this user for another two months.) ;-) —— Shakescene (talk) 20:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It is quite possible to go mad in the middle of a walrus Juliankaufman (talk) 21:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Obtaining worthless currency

I was reading some articles on hyperinflation and wondered a couple things. First of all, what happens to all the worthless money when it's replaced? Is it just thrown away, or is it sitting somewhere? If so, how would I go about obtaining some (I live in the US)? I think having a few million old Zimbabwean dollars would be cool. ZS 00:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The currency quite literally isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Generally, worthless currency usually becomes kindling or asswipe or housing insulation or some other marginally useful product, since you can't actuall spend it. You can buy the stuff on ebay. (I tried to print a link here, but the spam filter kicked it back). Do a search for "Zimbabwe $100 trillion" and there are dozens of sellers of the stuff. The going rate seems to be about one dollar per bill, that is usually sets of ten bills for ten bucks, which seems to me to be MUCH more than the stuff would be worth in spending cash in Zimbabwe. But if you got ten bucks to spend and want to have a unique collectors item, ebay has it for you! --Jayron32 02:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Yep. eBay has a "$100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar note" starting at GBP 3.00. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Back in 2001, I was given a 10,000,000 Turkish Lira by a Turkish friend of mine. And the guy I sat next to at work last year, had a friend who worked in the company's Johannesburg office (or maybe the Harare office). He was constantly reminding this friend to send him a promised 10,000,000 Zimbabwean dollars note. By the time the friend eventually got around to it, I think he sent a Z$ 10,000,000,000 note instead! As to getting such large denomination notes, I think you would need a friend who is there. Alternatively try eBay. Astronaut (talk) 02:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Stamps are also interesting from hyperinflationary periods - I've got some from 1924 Germany, which had to be overstamped twice before they made it to people (to up the price/value). They're collectible since they're "special". I'm sure you can find them online. - Jarry1250 ^{[ In the UK? Sign the petition! ]} 08:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The point being that such currency might have some value as a collectible, but that's about it. Confederate money would be a good example. So would razzbuckniks, if you can find any. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

In answer to one of the other question, the German government burned (supposedly) all the old currency. Of course, some survived, but the idea was to ensure no-one continued to use the old currency; in order for the new one to work, there had to be no alternative. I don't know exactly how they got hold of the currency, but I'm guessing they were swapped at banks, like with other currency changes. - Jarry1250 ^{[ In the UK? Sign the petition! ]} 08:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Why would people use worthless currency? Was the danger that someone might be fool enough to accept an old zillion-mark note as if it were worth a zillion new marks? —Tamfang (talk) 18:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Note that Jayron isn't being rhetorical with his comments above; see this Freakonomics bit on how far the Zim dollar fell. — Lomn 12:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

When my aunt was a girl, in the 1930s, she collected stamps from around the world. She had a couple of German stamps issued by the Weimar government. They had overstamped the value of the stamps, so that old 4 Mark stamps would now read 4,000,000 Marks. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 01:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

A couple of years ago I was in Romania after they'd transitioned from the old Lei to the new Lei (just knocked 4 zero's off), and both notes were in circulation. So I'd pay for something that cost 15RON with, maybe, a 5RON bill and a 100,000ROL bill. That made getting change a lot of fun. Tobyc75 (talk) 23:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I actually have a 1 Zim$ coin from before the plunge. Pretty cool actually, even if it is only worth as much as the aluminum it is made with. Googlemeister (talk) 13:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Burmese/Large Cat Cross

Hi Guys,

Is it possible for someone to breed a burmese with an other large cat, Something like a Maine Coon or a Norweigan Forest cat? I'm not currently aware of any breeds which combine the Burmese Affection for humans and just the large size.

Any Ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.138.157 (talk) 06:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

All domestic house cats are members of the same species; Felis catus and are fully able to interbreed. Unlike dogs, where physical size difference may prevent successful mating and/or gestation, cats are all roughly the same size; that is the really big ones aren't 20 times the size of the really little ones like dogs. So there is no real barrier to mating a Burmese with a Maine Coon. I am not sure, however, what traits you will get. You may end up with a large, hairy, friendly cat; but you could also end up with one that has all of the Maine Coon's surliness and none of the Burmese's affection. But yeah, there is no actual barrier to mixing those two breeds. --Jayron32 14:12, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Certainly when you cross two kinds of animal, you might get the best of the two original animals - but you might also get the worst. But it may be more complicated than that:

• Perhaps, the reason that the smaller cat is more affectionate is that it is in greater need of you (as a VERY large animal) to support them. The larger animal, being less needy of help might be surly as a result. That's just an example - but there could be any number of other genetic connections that might completely prevent you ever getting a large-but-friendly cat by simple inter-breeding.
• Perhaps the gene for "largeness" and the gene for "surliness" could end up being the exact same gene.
• It's also possible that the genetics of "largeness" and "friendliness" are both very complicated interactions of hundreds of genes. That would perhaps result in a merely medium-sized cat that's only moderately friendly...or it might result in there being only a vanishingly small probability of the offspring having all of the friendliness genes - so you could wind up with a bunch of small, unfriendly cats - and never get anything else!

The bottom line is that it might be possible - or it might be impossible. Unless you could find someone who'd actually succeeded already - we really have no way to know without doing either a lot of hit-and-miss breeding efforts or a truly insanely difficult scientific study that would likely cost far more than it's results could ever warrant. SteveBaker (talk) 22:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Raw steak on a Black Eye

How did this remedy get started? I can't find any info about it other than it doesn't work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.195.3.244 (talk) 15:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Raw steak from the fridge is cold and flexible, so it will tend to keep the swelling down like an icepack. Similar home remedies involve using a bag of frozen peas or frozen corn. My understanding anyways. --Jayron32 18:01, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

And given that the current remedy is a cold pack, I don't think a cold, raw steak is really the worst thing you could use in a pre-cold pack era. It maintains its temperature fairly well. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:36, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

And once it thaws you can heat-and-it. Not recommended for a modern cold-pack. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Using raw steak started long before fridges,I can remember it being mentioned by Dickens.The blood supposedly "drew" the blood out which sounds like sympathetic magic to me,...hotclaws 01:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

They might have been right for the wrong reason. It's been known to happen. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:26, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Muscovy Ducks

any ideas about the muscovy ducks, my daughter wants one for a pet. do people actually have these types of pets? any info on how to take care of the baby ones? User:Jaimeandjustin

Note - this was entered into article space in error - transferred here Exxolon (talk) 18:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you read Muscovy duck. If you have sufficient space they make a tolerable pet. If you search the web there is plenty of information on caring for young ducks.86.4.181.14 (talk) 07:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

You should get a book on keeping ducks. A single duck won't be happy. --Sean 14:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

General examinations for wannabe grads

Besides the GRE, what general (not only for law or medicine) examinations are there for graduates? --Quest09 (talk) 19:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course - we have a list! Adam Bishop (talk) 18:23, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Sound and Laptop

When I plug in the headphones the sound continues to come out of the speakers and not through the headsets? Do I have the settings incorrect or is it my soundcard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.244.184 (talk) 19:29, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

You could have a faulty headphone socket or faulty headphones. When the circuit is completed by plugging in your headphones your speakers should cut out and the headphones produce sound. Exxolon (talk) 19:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Depending on the type of headphones, there might be other reasons. I use USB headphones which have a rather temperamental relationship with some software. Algebraist 20:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

This question sounds familiar somehow (yes, it's a continuation of "headphones in Laptop" from July 31. Try the headphones with another device. Then you'll know if it's the headphones or the device that's malfunctioning. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 14:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

If you're using USB headphones, you may find that the software you currently have running and playing sounds will start to do so through the headphones if you exit and restart the application in question. That's how it works with my headphones, although I'm not quite sure why. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 22:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

August 2

environmental vegetarianism

i read the article about it and i got pretty much confused whether environmental vegetarianism actually contributes to sustainability r not.

can anyone help me about the actual merits and demerits of environmental vegetarianism?

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.142.233 (talk) 06:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The jury's still out on whether vegetarianism is the most sustainable diet (although it's certainly more sustainable than a steady diet of Big Macs). You may want to read my article on the subject at http://life-user.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-i-ex-vegetarian.html. NeonMerlin 07:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Mylan Engel's "The Immorality of Eating Meat" always seemed like a quality defense of vegetarian and it does involve environmental grounds. Here is a copy of the paper.--droptone (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If you want actual data from a solidly reliable source, the United Nations’ report Livestock's Long Shadow is hard to beat. It's available online for free, too. Red Act (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Unemployment and humanism

If everyone has value to society, how can there be so many people whom society isn't willing to pay for? 99.225.250.31 (talk) 07:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The law may set a lower limit on what people can be paid, in which case they may not be paid anything! Logically you may be also able to deduce that your assumption "everyone has value to society" is not true. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

(slightly political) It's also possible to say that in a pyramid like social structure there will be many people whose value lies in being at the bottom. This linked image outlines the ancient principles http://www.aldokkan.com/society/social_pyramid.jpg 83.100.250.79 (talk) 13:35, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

From where does this stated notion derive that "everyone has value to society?" I'm not questioning it, I'm just wondering what its source is. Bus stop (talk) 13:48, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I think answers may be found in unemployment - specifically in a market driven employment market it's not always (isn't) economically viable (profitable) to employ everyone. Additionally in an industrialised society the use of machines to increase productivity per person results in less work for people in general - and therefor - unemployment.83.100.250.79 (talk) 14:04, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

A large portion (what portion varies from country to country and time to time) of unemployed people are just "between jobs" rather than long term unemployed. The labour market is very illiquid, so it's not unusual for someone perfectly employable to take some time to find a new job after losing their old one. --Tango (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

When a company says its value is in its employees it often means it's just about to make whole bunch of them redundant. Value can be negative as well as positive. Dmcq (talk) 19:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a mixed-up question - so you get a three-way answer to think about!

1. I simply don't believe that "everyone has value to society". People who live a life of crime or who expect to live their entire lives on handouts of various kinds may not be providing society with any value whatever. Many other people provide some small value, but still less than they cost. If those people simply vanished overnight, society would undoubtedly be better off. The moral difficulty is that in many (most?) of those cases, the reason they are worthless to society is something that's beyond their individual control and indeed their situation may even be the fault of society at large. However, that doesn't alter the fact of their lack of value. So why isn't society willing to pay for these people? Well, it's obvious: because their value is zero...or, quite possibly, negative...duh! As it happens, we DO pay for them in many ways - pretty much because we're morally obliged to (especially when the root cause is not due to the individual in question). But in many cases, you couldn't describe the support we're giving them as being given "willingly".
2. The big problem with the OP's premise is in linking it to unemployment...an unemployed person may be "worthless" right now - but what about later? Let's pick an example: With the collapse of the housing market, we need far less realtors and home builders - lots of them must be unmployed and falling back on the safety net that society provides for them. But does that make them worthless? Not really - we fully expect the property market to recover in a year or two - and then we'll suddenly be in great need of these people again. Doesn't it make sense to support them in some manner until their skills are once more required?
3. The bottom-line of such willingness as there is to help these people is that we can all envisage a situation in which we might be in the same boat - there are very few people in society who could not find themselves unemployed right after their next pay check. Also we don't really want to have the sight of people starving to death or dying of exposure in the streets in the midst of our otherwise comfortable and civilised society.

SteveBaker (talk) 22:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Logistics exam question

I am stuck on one question, and am hoping you could put me on the right track

Toyota has been the international benchmark in the car industry, The Toyota Production System (TPS) was the basis of the lean-production revolution in worldwide car manufacturing, this included JIT, total quality management and continuous improvement. The company has taken this a stage further in the layout of the factory with workers grouped into areas to do particular tasks on the cars as they come through the factory; workers are aided by machines but not taken over by them. It has achieved high efficiency over conventional more automated systems that have more maintenance problems. It also allows for continuous improvement and total quality management to operate effectively. In developing new products, Toyota is using as many components from other ranges as it can. How will other manufacturers respond to this competition? Legacy929 (talk) 09:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

My answer would be that the other manufacturers should create the same sort of setup however it would also depend on other companies being able to provide the correct amount of stock when its required. Legacy929 (talk) 09:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The questions seems to me that its a sneeky way of getting you to list and describe all the latest techniques for operations management. 78.147.244.14 (talk) 14:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget that if other companies are prepared to adapt to compete there will be a massive capital requirement but - equally important - a massive investment in people. Training is one thing. Acceptance of change is far harder to achieve. Some have doubted that non-Japanese have the temprement to accept Japanese standards of behaviour.86.197.149.12 (talk) 15:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)DT

WP is not a crystal ball that predicts what manufacturers will do. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to compare and contrast alternative logistics strategies that the competitors might apply, and how they could gain competitive advantage. 130.188.8.11 (talk) 10:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Railway travel in Kazakhstan

Is it possible, as I've heard from people who live in Kazakhstan, to take a train between Aktau and either Karaganda or Astana without crossing through other countries? I've looked it up on the KTZ website, which appears to show one train every night at 20.53, with a long wait in Zhanaarka for a connecting train that arrives in Karaganda at 8.40 the next morning. But my Russian is not very good yet, and I'm probably getting something wrong. A search on Wikipedia tells me Zhanaarka is a district, not a town, and I've never heard of any of the other places on the route. The detailed railway map of Kazakhstan linked from the KTZ article is very low resolution and I can't read the city names. Also, the first train is described as "marshrut" - does that mean it's actually a bus? 86.130.139.236 (talk) 16:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I find this, for perhaps a partial answer to your questions: [1], and this: [2] Bus stop (talk) 16:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

These links are not about Kazakhstan... the first is for Baku, Azerbajian, and the second is about Armenia. 86.130.139.236 (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. I just thought that the word, "marshrut," might mean the same thing in different areas. Good point. Definitions might vary by region. Bus stop (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

On this map Zhanaarka District (if it is 'Žanaarkinskij rajon') is roughly the light blue tracks on this map : http://www.parovoz.com/maps/KTZ.gif

- this suggests that the southern route (near to kyrgizstan) is taken rather than the northern route passing through russia. However the railway website isn't working for me at the moment so I can't check.

also are you sure it's a 10 hr journey, and not 1 day 10hrs or more - it's well over 2000miles// Sorry I can't be of more help.

Mashrut - It's not a bus (don't worry) it's a general travel term (eg Almaty Mashrut could mean Almaty service)- I think in this context it's the type of train service (probably means "stopping service") (there are no buses - joke)83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Also I think the major town in Zanaarka is "Atasu" (english) if that helps.83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

If you can list some of the other places on the route it will be simple to see if any borders are crossed.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info - I found out some more. First, in this Lonely Planet thread it's mentioned the station near Aktau is called Mangyshlak - is that right? Assuming it is, Deutsche Bahn shows me a direct train to Astana, which takes just under 48 hours :-) Finally, in the same thread above there's a link to a much more detailed route map, which shows the line this train takes, staying just inside the Kazakh border with Russia. The existing map in the KTZ article misses it out entirely. I would change the link myself, but it's only a Geocities page and might vanish. Is it worth asking the author if they would release it for use on Wikipedia? 86.130.139.236 (talk) 22:31, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

There is a 'mangyshlak' near Aktau (not clear what it is) on one of the maps - though clearly not the same as 'mangyshlak province' : Luckily this site [3] states "Railways connecting the Mangyshlak station and the Aktau port are operated by Kaskor-Trans-Ser-vice and total 21 km." it seems to me that the atation serving Aktau is called "Mangyshlak station" and the port rail facility is named Aktau (or something like that)

Various travel sites describe "mangyshlak" as a station in the suburbs of Aktau.

Yes, it's worth linking to the map at the least, maybe - I found another here [4] that might be better.

In fact you really want this.. [5] - or more specifically start here [6] - you can see the two stations near Aktau.

Additionally the best is not free [7] 83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I've added the best map as a link to the article.

It's possible that this is a new track - there has been plans for expansion of the Kazakh rail network - specifically with a view to transporting goods from china to europe - I'm don't know if this is why that line is missing from the other maps - because it is new - but it is a possibility.83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Stockholm question

I keep forgetting what is the name of the big open square in the centre of Stockholm, near NK and Åhléns, with the immensely large, rectangular fountain pool. I seem to remember the name had something to do with King Oskar. What is this square's name? JIP | Talk 17:33, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Sergels torg is pretty close, but the pool is superelliptical, not squarish. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:56, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Also check the category Squares in Stockholm here [8], which may tickle your memory. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

It's definitely not Sergels torg. Even though I've only been to Stockholm about ten times, I mostly know Sergels torg inside out by now. No, this square is further away from the railway station than Sergels torg. AFAICR it's only less than a kilometre south from NK and Åhléns. Sergels torg is on two levels, with the fountain pool at the top, and all the shops at the bottom. This place is all on one level, with a big rectangular fountain pool and bars and cafés surrounding it. I know the place when I see it, but I just can't remember its name.

If you get stuck - could you point to it on this map http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ahlens&sll=59.331876,18.063626&sspn=0.00753,0.026307&gl=uk&ie=UTF8&radius=0.46&rq=1&ev=zi&ll=59.331876,18.063626&spn=0.00753,0.026307&z=15 I think I've got both your things on it, so it must be nearby83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The square in question.

Here is a picture of the square I'm talking about. This should help Stockholmians, at least, answer my question. JIP | Talk 19:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

This looks like Kungstradgarden (the photo on the bottom shows some facades on the opposite side). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:12, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like that's it. I've never been to Stockholm in winter, only in spring or summer, but the last photograph showing the square in summer confirmed me it's the same place. Thanks a lot! JIP | Talk 19:15, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Long historical trend in income inequality

Has income inequality generally increased or decreased since the Middle Ages? NeonMerlin 23:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I am fairly certain that, at least in the past 200 years, income inequality has decreased considerably. While in terms of absolute income, the richest people ever alive are all working today (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, et. al.), most studies agree that their relative wealth compared to the average person's wealth does not compare to that of those in the age of the Robber barons, who were far and away (at least in American society) the richest people ever, by comparison to the average American. The Vanderbilt family littered the U.S. with mansions which rival the largest palaces in the world (see Biltmore). Guys like Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller were no less well off either. --Jayron32 04:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That's called "The Rise of the Middle Class". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It really depends on how you measure wealth. According to our List of wealthiest historical figures article, itself based on a piece by Forbes, Bill Gates is nothing more than a wannabe compared to some of the pharaohs or Chinese emperors. John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, William Henry Vanderbilt, Osman Ali Khan, Andrew Mellon, Henry Ford, Marcus Licinius Crassus, Alain Le Roux and Basil II, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Alanus Rufus, Amenhotep III, William de Warenne, William II of England, Elizabeth I, John D. Rockefeller, Jar, Sam Walton, John Jacob Astor and Odo of Bayeux all had over $100 billion in 2007 values, which tops Bill Gates’ current estimated US$40 billion net worth.

But, the question was about inequality, where the key is the total share of the wealth held by the few, vis-à-vis the wealth held by the many. In that regard, the ancient totalitarians would have presided over a far greater inequality than mere entrepreneurs do today. Further, the very wide spread of literacy should be considered as one of the aspects of "wealth" that cannot be overlooked. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

There is no question that income inequality has been rising the last couple of decades. But whether it has risen or declined since the Middle Ages is another matter. The rise of the middle class in the Western countries should probably have done something to stabilise it, but it is a question whether the steep rise in income of the top few percent haven't been so steep as to neutralise this development? The biggest problem in answering this question is probably the lack of precise information regarding income during the Middle Ages, but one should think that it would be possibe to make some rough estimations to use in such calculations. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

You might be interested in Gini coefficient, income inequality metrics, and list of countries by income equality. --Sean 14:50, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Although I have a few notions and a handful of sources, I'm no expert. But it is important, in discussing theory, general trends and specific cases, to keep the distinction between inequality of wealth and inequality of income in mind. Many farmers may own much valuable land, yet still struggle precariously when costs are high, labor is scarce, yields are low and prices are low. Similarly for a small manufacturer or merchant with valuable facilities or stock on hand, but low turnover at low prices. Eventually, as in the Great Depression, the capital or wealth is liquidated through debt, taxes and bankruptcy, or else its real value declines drastically, but at a given moment there may be a great disparity between the distribution of wealth and the distribution of income. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

August 3

Munich street sign font

Could anyone identify the font in this sign? This image identifies it as aktuelle Antiqua, but of course that is rather vague. Thanks a lot. WilliamH (talk) 00:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

de:Benutzer:Chumwa seems to have passable English; perhaps he'll know? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 00:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

WhatTheFont couldn't find an exact match, but got pretty close with Schillerplatz Bold. — QuantumEleven 08:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Pretty close. Totally useless info: I bicycled by Aberlestraße pretty regularly as a kid; my trumpet repair guy worked near there. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It's hand-lettered. The second 'r' has a longer arc than the first, and the last 'e' has a shorter tail than the others. —Tamfang (talk) 21:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

TV.com's rankings

At TV.com I was checking a show and saw under Buzz that "ranks 1,441 out of the 18,265 shows on TV.com." Well, I wanted to find which show was ranked #1, so I checked the home page, and clicked "Full List." It showed Lost (TV Series) at the top of the list, but then on Lost's page it said Lost was #309. Well, then, which show was #1 and how do I find that out? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 02:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

TV.com has forums. You are likely to get an answer to this question if you post it there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.172.19.20 (talk) 11:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Cell blocker/jammer -- possible?

In today's paper there are two separate stories about families whose recent summer camping experiences were seriously marred by the nonstop chatter of a man in the adjacent campsite; apparently he spent the entire weekend /shouting/ into his cell phone (because reception was less than 5-bars, I guess) to continue to direct things at his home office.

Got me to thinking, would it be possible to build a little black box that would block, jam, or just fill with static the frequencies that cell phones use, for a radius of, say, 50 meters. (Makes me think of the Cone of Silence, on a larger scale :-) .)

It wouldn't prevent Mr I'm-so-important-my-company-can't-get-along-without-me from talking at all, but it might move him far enough away that he would cease to be a constant annoyance.

Possible? Difficult? Maybe an off-the-shelf product already exists??

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 03:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: I'm going to break about as many rules of decorum and whatever else here, and respond "in-line" to many of the replies. I've been gone for a couple of days, and this is the first time I've read the page since I posted the question. Further, I will be the first to admit that when I have seen other rants like this, I've said to myself "Jeez, he should just chill out" -- but now that the same thing has happened to me, I find it difficult to do so. Maybe for the purposes of this I should go by DaHorsesAss ... --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Assuming the guy isn't carrying a weapon of some kind, maybe everyone gathering around him to listen up close would give him a hint. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Did you read the first four words of the question? I read about this in the newpaper. It didn't happen to me. I'm not the one that needs the lecture. --DHA.

In the US, the FCC has ruled that cell phone jamming technologies are illegal (because they intentionally interfere with properly licensed and operated bandwidth). Similar rules exist in a variety of other countries. Dragons flight (talk) 04:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

This didn't happen to me, and I'm not the one that needs the lecture. All I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

Sounds like gathering around the guy is a good approach, then. He's basically disturbing the peace. But you don't need to call the cops. Just hang around him until he stops. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It might be a good approach, but it didn't happen to me, and I didn't ask how to deal with it. All I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

It certainly is possible to make such a jammer, and indeed here is one you could make yourself, although as pointed out such a device would be illegal and quite difficult to make, even with the plans. TastyCakes (talk) 05:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

From what I gather, they block signals in grammar and high schools quite frequently. Dismas|^(talk) 05:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what country you are talking about - but that would certainly be illegal in the USA. One school in Iowa is considering doing it anyway [9] - but it's pretty obvious that it's not going to be allowed. SteveBaker (talk) 14:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If they do it by constructing the building in such a way that it is a Faraday Cage, I doubt that would violate the law. Googlemeister (talk) 15:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

And assuming it's "illegal", and they stop him from using his cell... it's out in the woods, so what's he going to do? ... call a cop? ... using what? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Unless the OP was planning to chase the guy with the jammer (which sounds a rather risky thing to do), it seems eminently possible he could call someone about it. Whether that person would do anything is unclear. More to the point, many people may not be comfortable using an illegal device in an illegal manner. Particularly when it gives some idiot a thing over them. Nil Einne (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

NO, I was not planning to chase the guy with the jammer. This didn't happen to me -- I read it in the newspaper, and all I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

(outdent)Judging by your use of the vocabulary "cell phones" I am guessing that you are not in the UK, but this [10] site gives both general and specific advice on how to tackle it. I've had it enforced when neighbours insisted on having loud parties at 3am in Central London. The law has been applied in kinds of incidents, including neighbours having noisy sex (!) [11]. The first suggestion is

Tackle the Source

First, approach whoever is responsible for the noise. They will often not realise they are disturbing you. The majority of noise complaints are resolved informally, and you may well get a quicker result than if you wait for an official to arrive. In cases where you might feel threatened, or where previous personal approaches have not worked, go to your local authority.

Hope this helps. -- Alexandr Dmitri (Александр Дмитрий) (talk) 05:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't help, because it doesn't begin to answer the question. This didn't happen to me. I don't need the lecture. --DHA.

Possibly more to the point, he may not realize how well sound carries in the quiet of a rural area, and if his conversation is confidential, he might not want to be broadcasting it. Appealing to selfish instincts often works. Not always, though. Cellphone users have kind of displaced cigarette smokers for extraordinarily rude public behavior. Smoking and cellphoning at the same time would be the "motherlode". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Another person who didn't read the first line of the question. This didn't happen to me -- I read it in the newspaper, and all I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

I'm very skeptical of this guy's supposed cell-phone jammer (linked above by TastyCakes). By virtue of being a CDMA, spread-spectrum technology, cellular telephones are inherently resilient (though not truly immune) to interfering signals. The interfering jammer would need to monitor the signals, estimate the CDMA code, and inject signals modulated with the correct CDMA code. Spread spectrum coding was specifically designed to make this difficult - it's the same technology used on wide-band fighter jet RADARs. Even the term "jamming" is not really correct here. "Jamming" refers to broadcasting a strong analog tone with the intent to saturate the receiver front-end amplifier - but again, by virtue of the CDMA technology, that tone will be ignored (its energy will get demodulated by the digital decode, and its effect will be very small, regardless of how strong the jammer transmits). The jammer would need to broadcast a very strong signal over a very wide frequency band to completely saturate the cellular phone. As such, any interfering device is more properly a "digital electronic countermeasure" - and I'm very skeptical that a hobbyist project would be able to build one. Nimur (talk) 06:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That's cool, and very interesting. Thanks, Nimur. --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I know the folks at ladyada.net quite well - and use their forum systems quite a bit to chat about Arduino stuff - I'm reasonably confident that if they say it works, then it does...and there are several reports on their forum system of people having successfully built them (although you can't always trust what you read). Of course they are taking a very large risk in selling it - it's illegal to sell or own cell phone jamming equipment in the USA...however, they believe they are dodging the law by selling it in kit form...I dunno about that! SteveBaker (talk) 14:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't comment on whether it actually works or not, but I would suspect it does since it was part of her thesis at MIT. I should probably also point out that they're not selling it as a kit or any components of it, they are just giving instructions for making it (she released the design as open source). TastyCakes (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's only for GSM phones? Nil Einne (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Walk into a cinema in Hong Kong and your phone won't get a signal. Very common place, and very, very welcome. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

A kindergarten I worked at in Japan had a jammer, and you had to go outside to use your phone. I never understood the reason why they had a jammer, though, because it was just policy for the teachers not to use their mobile phones while at work (as looking after 3-5 year olds is a full-time process), and none of the kids had mobile phones. This was strange, honestly, because I have worked at many other schools with older kids who DO have mobile phones, and none of them have had jammers. I do believe they are a good idea in some ways, because sitting on a train for a long journey and you are trying to sleep with some guy sitting next to you giving you half a conversation is very annoying. However, I think they are not a good idea, too, because they block people's contact with emergency services, when necessary. I think some people should just be taught more etiquette. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it was to enforce their policy of no mobile phones at work? I know it seems a little odd, would make more sense for them to just monitor their staff properly but who knows. Alternatively, perhaps parents were creating problems, e.g. having loud conversations while picking up/dropping off kids. BTW, are you sure the kids had no mobiles? I know it seems unlikely if they were 3-5 but this is Japan. Perhaps some used to have them until the jammer came in? Nil Einne (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

While a jammer made for the purpose of jamming is illegal, it is not illegal to simply construct a building where one cannot get reception. That's how most of the classroom's in my old high school were, and since it can't technically be proven that they built them specifically for that purpose, they can't get in trouble. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 19:36, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

One downside of operating a cellphone jammer is that in an emergency, such as a man wearing a hockey mask, or carrying a chainsaw, or a using hook intended for large fish, who is going around murdering people, unless there were a convenient land line, there would be no way to summon emergency personnel. Similarly, someone might have a heart attack or there might be a lost toddler. To me the only possibly morally (if not legally) justifiable use would be attended, where you operate the jammer while the a-hole says "What??? You're breaking up!" and then turn it off if there are no more disruptions. Edison (talk) 01:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why it matters whether the people who built the building admit why it was built in that way or it can be proven why it was built in that way. They aren't operating a device or transmitting anything. They're just blocking signals from getting in and out from a private building. There could be some exceptions I guess if the building is considered publicly accessible (which may include a school) but definitely in the case I find it hard to believe it's likely to be illegal in many countries, not without evidence. Nil Einne (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

OK now, well, thanks, I feel better now. Thanks to those who read the question and answered it. This issue is

Resolved

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

For the sake of your blood pressure, consider that most of us here don't know you any better than we know the campers in the story. It's quite natural that a question about what can be done in such an event should prompt thoughts about what else can be done. Who knows, someone reading this might get some practical advice as well as an answer to your purely hypothetical question. —Tamfang (talk) 21:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Ye Olde Luke, it may very well be that where you live jamming cell phone signals is illegal. But, it isn't where I live, and in fact is very commonplace (as noted above). DOR (HK) (talk) 08:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Did loop 494 in Texas from Humble to Patton Village once serve as highway 59?

This is something that has interested me for a while. I have family that remember Cleveland, TX before the bypass was built, and it looks as if one was built around Splendora Texas as well. So that got me thinking Loop 494 might have been the highway at some point. Also, does anyone know where to find references that show what the road looked like 10, 20, 30, etc years ago????

Yes, according to the Texas State Highway Designation File from the TxDOT, Loop 494 is along the old route of US 59, "From US 59 at New Caney, southwestward along old location US 59 to US 59 south of Harris/Montgomery County line." I created the Texas State Highway Loop 494 article; in the future, you might find that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Texas State Highways project is a good place to ask these sorts of questions. (Also see List of highways in Montgomery County, Texas and Category:Texas state highway loops and spurs). Nimur (talk) 07:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

(Actually, Wikiprojects are NOT the place to ask this kind of question - unless it somehow relates to an article you are writing or editing that falls under their auspices. This is the correct place to ask this kind of question.) SteveBaker (talk) 14:12, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Scripts

Do we have a list of types of writing, and how they developed, eg Roman, Rune, Russian oriental, sanscrit ect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 09:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

List_of_writing_systems? I think it's too broad to say how each developed, but there should be links. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

For roman see Latin alphabet, for russian see Cyrillic alphabet, for runes see Runic alphabet, also Sanskrit and Arabic alphabet Hebrew alphabet etc. as starting points. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Also History of the alphabet, and Phoenician alphabet for the ancestor of all those scripts. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Pint

Sorry for my bad English ! I read that 1 imperial pint = 568.26125 millilitres (exactly) ≈ 568 ml, but in the 20th century. Between 1795 and 1798, was it the same ? If no, how much ml was it (for milk) ? Thank you for yours answers. --Égoïté (talk) 11:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The pint article is pretty comprehensive in its explanation of various pint measures and their metric equivalents. However, no mention is made of it being different between 1795 and 1798. Why do you think that for 3 years the metric equivalence of a pint was different?

Is it possible you were looking at the French article fr:Unités de mesure anciennes (France)#Mesure du volume des liquides? It mentions an alternative pint of 48 cubic inches = 952.146 millilitres used in France during the "Ancien Régime" (ie. before the 1789 revolution). Astronaut (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the OP is asking whether the value between 1795–1798 was the same as the present-day value, not whether it changed during that interval. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes I just need to know how much ml was equal to 1 imperial pint of milk in the period 1795-1798. Thank you --Égoïté (talk) 14:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The answer might differ from country to country, I assume you meant England or France?83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Imperial pint was not used in France, I think... It is there, p.101, note 17. Thank you, --Égoïté (talk) 16:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry the date 1804/5 eluded me.

Have you seen this site http://home.clara.net/brianp/index.html it states that post 1824 the imperial system was standardised (and has not changed much since), but also mentions that the definition of a gallon changed - so it's reasonable to assumed that pre-1824 1pint was not equal to 568ml.

Unfortunately I can't find as yet what a gallon was in 1795.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

According to Weights and Measures Act there was a "Weights and Measures Act 1795" - most likely this will have the information you seek - the British Library should have a copy, if you can't find it elsewhere.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. I try to understand and hope to come here tomorrow. --Égoïté (talk) 21:16, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the act of 1795 would not describe the volume in milliliters, which at the time were seen as French units and anyway had only just been invented. It might not be possible just by reading the act to know what the size of its units was. --Anonymous, 01:54 UTC, August 7, 2009.

"sayings"

I'm wondering what the meaning of some of the old sayings my mother had would be. The one I most recently questioned was: An itchy palm means money. But does it mean money coming in or going out? Does it matter which palm? Another one is an itchy foot, an itchy nose. Any history on the origin and/or meaning? This is just for conversation use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.77.229.75 (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

According to my grandmother (and m other), an itchy palm means you're going to gain money (or specifically win the lottery). An itchy nose means you have to kiss a fool. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

An itchy nose could be the start of Rhinitis or a sweet story.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I may get this the wrong way around but I recall my late mother saying an itchy palm meant one of 2 things depending on which palm. I think it went something like "Right to receive - Left to Grieve". Mebbe someone else with a better memory could clarify. 92.23.47.122 (talk) 21:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

PIG LATIN/CODE

Can someone decipher this: saihf hsaf hsaeht 'hslka gh'agh'a h'lag --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't look like Pig Latin. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I dunno what it is and I have been trying to decipher it for a friend for the last half hour. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:20, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

rot13 doesn't work. A hint about context might be helpful. PhGustaf (talk) 16:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Where did it come from? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

We got nothing else. This was written by a girl he's interested in. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm - Google says "saihf" is "South African Investable Hedge Fund"...quite some girl your friend is interested in! :-) SteveBaker (talk) 17:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks almost Klingon, although that is written with lots of capital letters. --Tango (talk) 18:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The reply is Klaatu barada nikto. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

What? Seriously? --67.85.117.190 (talk) 18:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

No, not seriously unless the girl looks like this.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

"gh'agh'a" is apparently a way to transliterate the Greek word for "grandmother". Adam Bishop (talk) 19:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

You might have better luck asking this question at the language reference desk.

It does look vaguely like Klingon. Could the original text have included capital letters? Capitalization is very important in Klingon. And is the girl in question a nerd girl?

It doesn’t look like a simple substitution cipher, or a simple substitution cipher with reversal, because the punctuation won’t work. And it’s not any kind of transposition cipher, because the letter frequencies are all wrong. Red Act (talk) 21:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't really look like Klingon, unless it has been transcribed from speech, maybe. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I guessed Klingon too - but I looked up the words in my Klingon/English dictionary shortly after the question was asked - and NONE of them are in there. There doesn't seem to be enough variation of letter choices for it to be any kind of code. But there would be little point in writing something so indecipherable to someone who you actually wanted to understand you. I kinda suspect it's deliberate gibberish. Perhaps there is more information in the way the letters are written - or what the letter is written on...who knows? SteveBaker (talk) 00:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The character positions look like they fit the pattern for banging fingers on a QWERTY keyboard. I doubt there was an intended meaning. Nimur (talk) 02:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That’s true. Three characters in the text -- the one “i”, the one “e”, and the one “t”, are in the row above the home row. The entire rest of the text consists of characters on the home row. That’s got to be more than a coincidence. It’s gibberish. Red Act (talk) 02:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

¶ More than a coincidence, indeed, but hardly gibberish. Once again, Watson, I suspect that you have excelled yourself. Do you recall, perchance, from those sensational but unscientific sketches of yours, The Adventure of the Solitary Cyclist in the spring (I think) of '95?

My friend took the lady's ungloved hand and examined it with as close an attention and as little sentiment as a scientist would show to a specimen.
"You will excuse me, I am sure. It is my business," said he, as he dropped it. "I nearly fell into the error of supposing that you were typewriting. Of course, it is obvious that it is music. You observe the spatulate finger-end, Watson, which is common to both professions? There is a spirituality about the face, however" -- he gently turned it towards the light -- "which the typewriter does not generate. This lady is a musician." [12]

Notice that while most of the letters in question, as you wrote above, are on one row of the typewriter, with but three on the row above, none of them (ZXCVBNM,./) are below that principal row. What would that suggest to your apprehensive, diagnostic mind? If the young lady in question were, perhaps, to apply her refined, spatulate fingertips not to the workaday dactylograph but to the more-suitable keys of a pianoforte, what sound might emerge? Might E, I and T correspond to the black keys and thus furnish a clew as to the correct white keys? —— Shakescene (talk) 23:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Using the first online keyboard I got when I googled [13], the notes are something like: D,C,?,A,F / A,D,C,E / A,D,C,D#,A,F / G,F1,A,D,D1,C1,C / G,A,F1,C,G,A,F1,C / A ,F1,D1,C,G. I have no idea if that's a song or not. The question mark is because 'I' didn't correspond to anything. It's right next to 'C#1' though. Emm (talk) 01:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Since E, I and T would all have to correspond to a black key, black keys not existing between every pair of white keys limits the E character to corresponding to either an F# or a Bb. Either way, the text played as music is atonal, which makes it extremely unlikely to be a real piece of music. In other words, interpreting the text as music like that just produces musical gibberish. Red Act (talk) 01:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

¶ Remember that Holmes himself had to compensate for filling 221B Baker Street with endless hours of tuneless bowing of his violin by playing a medley of Dr. Watsons' favourite numbers!

....When left to himself, however, he would seldom produce any music or attempt any recognized air. Leaning back in his arm-chair of an evening, he would close his eyes and scrape carelessly at the fiddle which was thrown across his knee. Sometimes the chords were sonorous and melancholy. Occasionally they were fantastic and cheerful. Clearly they reflected the thoughts which possessed him, but whether the music aided those thoughts, or whether the playing was simply the result of a whim or fancy was more than I could determine. I might have rebelled against these exasperating solos had it not been that he usually terminated them by playing in quick succession a whole series of my favourite airs as a slight compensation for the trial upon my patience. — A Study in Scarlet, Part I, Chapter 2

—— Shakescene (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

English text typed with the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard uses characters on the home row more often than with the QWERTY keyboard. So I checked to make sure the text isn’t as if a DSK typist was typing on a QWERTY keyboard. It isn’t. It still appears to be gibberish. Red Act (talk) 02:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Given the context - is it even likely that it was typed? What would this mean on (for example) a phone text-message? Is this someone typing without looking with the phone in the wrong mode? SteveBaker (talk) 13:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

My thought was that if she hands this guy a note like that, then he should switch his interests to someone who's willing to write in English. There are plenty of fishies in the sea. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the best thing to do would be to ask the person who wrote it. Googlemeister (talk) 13:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I highly doubt the message was printed out and handed to the guy – I presume it was just e-mailed or IM'ed. And I’m guessing the girl might even have been in the same room as the guy when she sent that message. I think the message was a means of social acknowledgement, sort of like saying “hey” when you pass someone in the hall. The actual content of a message like that isn’t what’s important, but rather the meta-message of “I think you’re worthy of me communicating with you, and communicating with you is something I enjoy doing.” The message was just misinterpreted as potentially meaning more than it was intended to. And I certainly think that deciding that the girl isn’t worth pursuing just because she sent a meaningless message once is making an awfully hasty judgment based on very little information. There are plenty of fish in the sea, but you’ll never wind up with any of them if you discard all of them over trivial perceived flaws. There isn't one fish in the sea that doesn’t have even the slightest blemish. Red Act (talk) 06:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe even the writer sent a random message to try an encourage the receiver to actually have the courage ask or at least IM/e-mail/SMS/whatever back and find out what the writer meant? In which case it sounds like it's the receiver who failed this test, and not the writer Nil Einne (talk) 20:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The writer may be thinking about the danger to Grade A eggs during a flight if there is flak,and the need to be quiet, since the message is an anagram of "a a a a a a egg flight shh shh shh sh flak." Edison (talk) 14:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What is a confirmation letter?

Does it simply mean "a letter to confirm something"? 117.0.0.18 (talk) 16:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Simply what it says. "Confirm" means to say something really is true. Often after a face-to-face discussion where a decision has been made that decision will be confirmed in a letter so that you have it on paper. --Tango (talk) 18:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Some things that might be confirmed are an apointment, a statement said earlier, that an order or payment has been received, that something assumed is correct, the religious meaning or that a 3rd party vouches for you. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

In business it may also be called a COYA or "cover your ass letter." This is frequently done, perhaps as a memo of understanding, so that one party to a verbal agreement, or someone who gives verbal instructions, cannot later claim that the other party misremembers the conversation. Edison (talk) 19:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Verbal means using words; anything written is verbal. I think you mean oral, though that word may give some gutter-minded folk the giggles. —Tamfang (talk) 21:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

But in the last Edison definition, especially in English Law, don't forget "the battle of the forms", which means that a confirmation letter could have a variation clause printed on the reverse, or be accompanied by another piece of paper bearing the variation clause, which, left unchallenged, would have the effect of incorporating the variation into the contract/agreement/or understanding. And English Courts are loath to subsequently overturn such incorporations when the usurped party realises he has been duped. As we say in Latin, "Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware". 92.23.47.122 (talk) 22:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That is a part of the game. Things left up in the air at a meeting may be expressly stated in terms favorable to the sender. If carried too far, this may evoke a bad reaction from the recipient: "I don't know what meeting YOU were at, but we never said ....." Edison (talk) 14:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You're so right. I qualified as a Member of the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply many years ago and a large part of the qualification rested on a comprehensive understanding of "English" Contract Law. I am retired now but still use that knowledge when buying domestic and personal items - and usually to my ultimate protection and advantage. But I recall being shown a confirmation or acceptance letter that purported to "accept" an offer that had been made during earlier negotiations. The reverse of the letter was decorated with a beautiful faint blue eagle with outsretched wings that bore no apparent relationship to the "contract" nor even the sender's business. It was only when examined under a fairly strong magnifying glass that the eagle turned out to actually be extremely fine print in faint blue setting out a completely different set of Terms and Conditions from those that had been "agreed" during the negotiations. Left unchallenged, those decorative (and punitive) T's and C's would have been construed as having been accepted by the recipient and would in all likelihood have been well-nigh-impossible to have overturned following acceptance of the letter. Be careful out there. 92.22.200.156 (talk) 19:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That would be trivially unenforceable in a consumer contract, and fairly dubious in a commercial one. This sort of thing (although not usually quite as inventive) comes up reasonably often in uk.legal.moderated. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I've known lawyers (US) to send letters that begin "This is to confirm our conversation of today in which you said ...," summarizing what was said so that it exists in writing. I once heard a criminal defense lawyer recite a confirming letter that he had recently sent to a prosecutor, whose real message was "Your behavior is grossly illegal, and naturally the judge is getting a copy of this." The prosecutor would then, it was hoped, write a clarifying letter saying he was misunderstood and of course he didn't contemplate any such action as described. —Tamfang (talk) 21:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Taxi Fare?

Does anyone know approximately the taxi fare from Stansted Airport to central London at about 10.30pm on a weekday? Richard Avery (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

This page says, with strange precision, "A taxi journey into London for one to four people costs about £99, depending on the exact destination." Unless there are several of you, why not get the train - there are services from the airport to Liverpool Street up to 00.30am for a lot less. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that Andrew, can't quite understand how I missed that page. Richard Avery (talk) 19:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Book a car in advance. This site is offering transfers from Stansted to Central London from £45 if paid in advance - [14] - doubtless there are others offering other deals. By contrast std single way fare by train is £19 - if you're not alone the car may well be cheaper/more convenient (which says a lot about how rubbish our trains are). Exxolon (talk) 21:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

break bone and not know?

Is it possible to break a bone and not know that it is broken, say a wrist or an ankle? Googlemeister (talk) 18:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Toe is especially easy to break and not know. Also, MMA fighters and boxers will break their hand early in a fight and not realize it till after the fight. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it is possible for things like a toe, I am more interested in a structural bone that has to hold weight. Googlemeister (talk) 19:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

One can have a hairline break in an ankle and have it be called a sprain, even after a doctor has examined it, with the break only disclosed a week later by Xray when it is still sore. But in that case, it was not completely asymptomatic.Edison (talk) 19:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Bert Trautmann broke his neck playing football and didn't know an xray three days later. Algebraist 19:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

There are newspaper reports of people living for years or decades - sometimes in pain, sometimes not - with a broken neck. 90.195.179.49 (talk) 21:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

A schoolfriend of mine broke his arm badly enough to need substantial metalwork in it, but didn't know it was broken until the following day. He knew something was up, but he really, really wanted to play in a tennis match so didn't see anyone about it. I got roped in to help him work out a one-armed serving technique - needless to say as soon as they saw him try that for real the next day he got hustled off to hospital. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:36, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I have heard plenty of similar anecdotes. People usually know they have badly hurt their arm, or whatever, but don't realise it is actually broken until it continues to hurt for a day or two and they think maybe they should get it checked out. --Tango (talk) 01:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I once cracked a rib with very little force (I think in flopping down forward on a bed with my hand on it), and didn't know that's what happened until I saw the doctor. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

A friend once fought off a mugger by punching the mugger so hard that he broke his hand. He didn't notice until he woke up the following morning, by which time his hand had swollen to almost twice its normal size. I suspect the large amount of alcohol he had drunk had something to do with him not noticing 'til morning. Astronaut (talk) 05:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

So it would appear that it would not be likely for someone to break a load bearing structural bone and not know that something is very wrong, even if they are not certain that it is the bone that is broken, or if it might be a bad sprain. Googlemeister (talk) 13:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I once heard a story about a man who went into a doctor's office with a persistent limp-turned out he'd been walking with a broken hip for a week or so (Yikes)Library Seraph (talk) 14:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Then there was the one about a guy who went to a doctor saying he hurt all over. He touched himself in various places. "Ouch!" each time. Turned out his finger was broken. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Racing flags

For the falgs is there such thing as a "brown flag", "orange flag" or "purple flag"? What is white flag usually mean? Is "black flag" usually mean "NO WAY"? Is secure color flag "green flag" Is there such thing as a blue flag? Like Stop light flag warning meaning things is getting dangerous and somebody needs help.--69.229.108.245 (talk) 19:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you read the article you linked to? It seems pretty thorough to me. --Tango (talk) 20:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The Racing flags article really does say it all - but to summarize:

• No, there are no brown, orange or purple flags. There is a black flag with an orange circle which means that the car has some kind of mechanical fault which is causing a hazard to other drivers (like it's spewing oil all over the track or something).
• The white flag means that this is the final lap of the race.
• The black flag means that the driver has done something that's against the rules and has been given a penalty.
• The green flag is used to start the race.
• The blue flag is a cautionary flag indicating either that you are driving slowly and there is a fast car approaching you from behind...or that you are driving fast, but there is a very slow car ahead of you. Either way, it's a warning.
• The yellow flag is used for general kinds of warnings. Yellow with red stripes specifically warns of debris on the track.

SteveBaker (talk) 00:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What does this apartment term mean?

What does 1½, 2½, 3½, etc., mean in regards to apartments for rent? HYENASTE 23:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If this is in the US, might it mean number of "bathrooms"? I'm in the UK, but I believe that in the US they use "1½ bath" to mean a property that has one actual bathroom (with a bath and/or shower) and one room containing only a toilet and a basin. I assume it's fairly normal to have exactly one such room in any property of suitable size, with the increasing number of "whole" bathrooms being en-suites to bedrooms. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. In the US, a proper bathroom - with an actual bath in it counts as '1' - a smaller room with just a toilet and handbasin counts as a "half-bath". So 1½ bathrooms - means that there are two rooms - one with a bath/shower in it, both having toilet/handbasins. There is considerable variability in how people count rooms with a shower but no bath. SteveBaker (talk) 00:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It could also be number of rooms (small rooms like a bathroom count half). 1½ would be a studio apartment (one big room plus bathroom), 2½ would be a one bedroom (1) flat with combined kitchen/dining room/living room (+1) and a bathroom (+½), etc. In the UK the advert would usually specific what is being counted: "2½ room apartment" or "2 bedroom apartment with 1½ bathrooms" or whatever. --Tango (talk) 01:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

In fact, it could even be counting bedrooms, with a half being a box room (redlink?! wikt:box room will have to do). --Tango (talk) 01:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I just created a redirect for box room. Red Act (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers! Considering the pricse and locations, Tango's answer makes the most sense. HYENASTE 03:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

All those "1 1/2"s bothered my eye so I changed "1/2" to "½". Hope you don't mind. —Tamfang (talk) 22:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

August 4

Beavis and Butthead recently

Have any of you seen the episodes of Beavis and Butthead that has been on MTV2? It's the episodes sans the videos, with four segments in the half hour rather than two. What exactly is this? Torkmann (talk) 01:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Syndication? Nimur (talk) 02:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the original episodes (with the videos) were in syndication on MTV2 for years. Torkmann (talk) 02:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Heh heh heh. Edison (talk)

Army basic training record

I attended Army basic training at Fort Leonard Wood Mo., beginning March 31, 1964. Throughout the training a photographer took pictures of many activities and at the end of the training you could purchase a "yearbook" of the training period. At the time I did not have any extra money to purchase the "book". I am looking for leads on how I might find a copy of this book. (I won the obstacle course competition for our entire training company). There were hundreds of soldiers who "graduated" that June who probably purchased a copy. I would like to borrow a copy to make a copy. This may be a needle in a haystack but thought I would try. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Farnorthvet (talk • contribs) 03:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Is it safe to assume you have tried to contact Fort Leonard Wood directly? - Here is their website: http://www.wood.army.mil/wood_cms/ Failing that, if you can remember the names of some of the other guys in your training company, have you tried looking them up in online telephone white pages or Googling them? Obviously, it might be easier to find a specific individual with an unusual name, than someone with a more common name (for example, there could be thousands of Bill Johnsons but not that many guys called Matt Zwicki) - I'm also thinking that some will probably be around 60 now and coming up for retirement from possibly quite senior positions in various corporations - a site like LinkedIn might help there. Astronaut (talk) 04:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Good advice though I'd use Facebook on that last point as well as LinkedIn. Facebook is the #1 social networking site in the US and is bound to be for quite some time. When you set up your profile, be sure to include a photo of yourself from back then as well as today; photos will make it more likely someone will contact you after you find them. Tempshill (talk) 05:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Books of that sort come up for sale on Ebay all the time. Old high school yearbooks, phone books from small towns 50 years ago, what have you. Create an Ebay account and it can email you when one comes up for sale. Edison (talk) 14:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I searched on Ebay for "Ft. Leonard Wood 1964" and up popped a [15] "1964 FT LEONARD WOOD ARMY TRAINING YEARBOOK CO. A" The sale runs another 3 days. It is for "COMPANY A SECOND BATTALION 2ND REGIMENT OF THE U S ARMY TRAINING CENTER ENGINEER." Here[16] is one for "1964 FT LEONARD WOOD MISSOURI ARMY TRAINING YEARBOOK. COMPANY B 1ST BATTALION 2D 9 APRIL 1964" Whatever group you were in is likely to have similar memorabilia come up for sale. Edison (talk) 03:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Future=now?

why is it important to apprehend the future needs of the consumers to stayy competitive in the market as a producer or service provider.Did APPLE do the same to get where it is now with no tough competeter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 07:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Please read the top of the page, specifically the bit about us not doing your homework for you. As for Apple computers, they DO have a tough competitor called Microsoft; Apple Records, the record company founded by the Beatles has plenty of competitors all round the world (see List of record labels); and Apple Bank has many competitors in New York including Citibank, Bank of America, and many others. Astronaut (talk) 07:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, apples are in competition with pears, oranges, etc. It's tough out there. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Having re-read the questions, and taking into account the OP not using English as their first language, maybe he meant "Why is it important to comprehend the future ..." and "Would Apple do the same to get where it is now ...". Astronaut (talk) 08:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Any company anywhere wants to be successful, obviously, and to be successful they have to find the market for a product. There were actually quite a few small computers around when Apple first came along. They slowly disappeared, like the Hupmobile and its brethren, until we are left with just two viable competitor types - the Apples and the IBM PC clones. It's the nature of business - from many manufacturers (broad-based competition) to just a few manufacturers (monopolistic competition). Economics 101. When there are a number of rival products that are ostensibly similar, various factors kick in, including marketing skills and, frankly, some luck. VHS won out over Beta, not necessarily because it was a better product as such (Beta's picture quality was said to be superior to VHS, as I recall) but because VHS was perceived to be more flexible (2-4-6 hours vs. just 2) and - fatally so - the perception in the market that VHS was the future. Self-fulfilling. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually - the main reason VHS won was because of Porn. Beta tapes were proprietary - a typical porn vendor couldn't get them - so porn went out on easily obtainable VHS. Since pre-recorded tapes (both porn and mainstream) were expensive, the rental market took off - and that couldn't sustain two formats, so the one that had the porn won. Beta was (technologically) a much better format - and others such as the Philips V2000 format were superior to both VHS and Beta - but by then it was all over. Sad - but true. SteveBaker (talk) 13:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Apple/IBM and Beta/VHS are both instructive. Apple and Betamax were both superior technologies kept proprietary. The PC and VHS were made open through licensing deals, allowing a far larger number of participants in the marketplace. Costs came down more quickly and more enterprises promoted the technology. Apple (the computer company) just barely survived as a company, but then got back the smart guy at the top and has since become resurgent by anticipating the customer desire for simplicity in consumer areas beside computers. Also, they figured out that people will buy a computer based on the colour of the casing, which was pretty smart from a marketing standpoint. Basically though, Apple survived long enough on their cashflow from fanatics to use the same brand name in other markets, using the same idea of simplicity in the user interface. Franamax (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The Apple=Beta IBM=VHS analogy can be stretched too far. When Beta died, the change happened rapidly - in a matter of months, certainly not years. More instructively, when HD-DVD died and BluRay won, the change happened in about 2 weeks - a couple of key manufacturers flipped - and before you knew it the prices of HD-DVD players had dropped like a rock and stores had pretty much removed the actual media from their shelves. People who'd bet on the wrong horse were kicking themselves - but everyone knew that both formats couldn't possibly be here to stay. In both cases (Beta/VHS and HD/BluRay), the market couldn't sustain two competing and incompatible formats. However, Apple is still here - and they are still selling a decent range of computers. Their market share for computers is small - but they are in no danger of losing that share anytime soon. They have found a small, stable, profitable niche - and it's working out just fine for them. Fans of Apple computers are amazingly loyal. It has been said that if Apple was ever in danger of bankruptcy, they could file for religious status! Every new product is awaited breathlessly and devoured by the faithful. Compare that to the launch of Vista - with yawns and grumblings and fervent hopes that we can all cling on to XP until the storm blows over! It's a totally different business situation than Beta vs VHS. We have the bizarre situation where a large percentage of people who buy Windows PC's would really LOVE to switch to something else - but perceive (rightly or wrongly...and mostly wrongly) that they cannot. Adherents of Mac and Linux mostly wouldn't switch if you paid them to. It's a totally upside-down situation that's essentially been brought about by the abject failure of the market dynamic that caused VHS to beat Beta to allow Microsoft to crush Apple or vice-versa. SteveBaker (talk) 13:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Isn't that obvious? If you don't try to anticipate your consumers' future needs, how are you going to plan your product development? When your consumers' "future" needs become their present needs, you'll be behind—your competitors have product offerings to meet those needs; you're busy playing catch up. --173.49.9.21 (talk) 12:09, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Just as a side note - rather than anticipating customers future needs it is far better (particularily for a high-end/lifestyle manufacturer like Apple) to create and define a customers needs. ie create a new market.83.100.250.79 (talk) 13:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Certainly a part of marketing is to try to "create" demand. Hence the concept of advertising. How else would anyone have made money selling "Pet Rocks"? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Buddhist wedding gift, prayer, toast

Good morning.

A couple of friends of mine are getting married. Both are huge fans of Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron.

What would be a good wedding gift prayer, gift, and/or toast for two people who, though not Buddhist, espouse the principles of Buddhism? Maybe there are traditional gifts, prayers, or toasts. If you could advise me or know someone who could, please let me know.

Thank you. Have a nice day! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 512mb (talk • contribs) 12:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, as far as gifts are concerned, prayer flags might be well thought of. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Given the reference to Pema Chodron, I take it you mean "Westernised Tibetan Buddhism" and not the East Asian schools.

I suggest googling for "traditional Tibetan wedding ceremony" (rather than Buddhist). This page looks like it might have some useful information.

Wedding and marriage-related traditions in a Buddhist culture are likely to be geographically, rather than religiously, specific, since (non-Tibetan) Buddhism (though modern day Tibetan Buddhism is increasingly adopting some of these values) -- advocates celibacy very strongly, and traditionally (non-Tibetan) Buddhist monks and nuns play no role in weddings and marraige-related ceremonies at all. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The only Buddhist wedding I've been to was a complicated Zen one in Oakland. I gave the couple one of the things they'd signed up for at Macy's, and a few of us got together to fill a Red Envelope. Good wedding, good tea ceremony afterwards, great banquet afterwards. Everybody seemed happy.

PhGustaf (talk) 06:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Fast Food Obesity in China vs North America

On my recent trip to China, I stopped by at several American fast food restaurants such as McDonald and KFC. After surveying the the people inside the restaurants, I noticed that all of them were very thin and far from what we in NA would call "overweight." This holds true for most of the people I see on the streets too.

Surely this must be a genetic difference between Orientals and North Americans right? If so, why are Orientals, on average, smaller - in terms of both height and body mass - than the average North American? Is their ability to not gain weight after eating junk food a result of a fast metabolism or is there something else in play? Acceptable (talk) 15:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That fast food is available in China does not imply that Chinese eat fast food as often as, or in the same quantity as, Americans. It also doesn't consider whether the menu at a Chinese McDonald's is nutritionally equivalent to the same in the US. I'd look for much simpler reasons for obesity rates before jumping to genetic differences. — Lomn 15:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Agree with lomn here. Could be a matter of the Americans eat fast food 20 times a month vs the Chinese at 1 time a month, or it could be a matter of exercise. I would not believe that it is genetic unless there were some scientific studies showing support instead of just looking at a small group of people and not knowing 95% of the variables. Googlemeister (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The easiest way to get an idea of whether or not it is genetic would be to look at people of oriental descent living in the US. You can't rule out cultural differences even when people live in the same country, but it is far better than comparing people living in different countries. If there is significant obesity in Chinese-Americans then that pretty much rules out a genetic explanation (the lack of significant obesity wouldn't confirm that is was genetic, though). As for height, that's a combination of genetics and diet (and maybe some other environmental factors), I believe. There is a discussion of the subject here. --Tango (talk) 15:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree, that would be the best way. However, while exercise (ie walking to driving ratio) may be closer, I think it's very common for even 2nd generation Chinese people to eat largely Chinese-style meals at home in North America, so I think the error in a random sampling would be pretty systematic. I think the best way to do it would be to study adopted Asian babies, raised in North America with no real connection to Asian culture, but I'm not sure if you could get a large enough sample size to get a lot of confidence, and even this data may be skewed by more "hippie do gooders" adopting Chinese babies than "average Americans". TastyCakes (talk) 16:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

A number of studies on NZ Asian migrants have suggested obesity is a big problem [17] [18] [19] [20]. Bear in mind this will potentially include East Asian, South East Asian and South Asians. And the reasons are likely to be more complicated then just diet Nil Einne (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

62000+ scholarly articles were found by Google - there's no shortage of research into ethnicity and obesity. Cardiology research journals seem to have a lot of useful information: Fast food and obesity in China seems to specifically address your question. Fast food, automobiles, television and obesity epidemic in Chinese children also seems to sum the subject up. From these articles, and the sources they cite, you can probably deep-dive and find all kinds of statistics research. "In Beijing, 27.8% of children surpass the standard weight guidelines. By the end of 2000, the obesity rate of male students in Beijing reached 15%, doubling that of 1990 and approaching that of developed countries." Your cursory glance at one or two restaurants is not a scientific study - as a single anecdote, it is virtually useless in estimating a population trend. Nimur (talk) 16:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure I saw somewhere that American Big Macs are bigger and saltier than anyone else's. Hm. Vimescarrot (talk) 16:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You mean this Big Mac? Nil Einne (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I like how the British Big Mac has over twice the sodium of the US one but makes up less of the recommended daily intake. Apparently the UK government are bigger fans of salt. TastyCakes (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me to be a European thing. Well except for the French, but they always have to be different Nil Einne (talk) 19:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying French food isn't salty? I think at least that the British stereotype French food as very salty (as opposed to being bland, which is a stereotype of British food). AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Neuschwanstein

How many rooms are in Neuschwanstein and what was its cost to construct and decorate? Googlemeister (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

And here I thought you were a Googlemeister. Googling "Neuschwanstein Castle cost" yields this link, which claims that Ludwig II built it on credit, and his heirs paid it back; the cost through 1886, when Ludwig and the psychiatrist who declared him insane were found drowned, was apparently 6,180,047 Goldmarks. Our article says 14 rooms were completed at the time of Ludwig's death, and this travel guide link says the guided tour is of "the 17 rooms that were finished". Not the most clear or definitive reference, but it may be sufficient? Tempshill (talk) 16:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I was looking to see how many unfinished rooms there are. I interpret unfinished as not having decorations installed, or is the definition of unfinished mean there are not any walls in the rest of the place? Googlemeister (talk) 18:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that's the number of rooms that were decorated, judging from the size of it there would be 17 rooms just for servants quarters at least.83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I was going to accuse you of not doing your own research - but it's not easy to find - unless you are a genius (like me) and realise that typing "Neuschwanstein floor plan" into google gives the answer almost immediately eg http://randwulf.com/hogwarts/castle.html

I leave it to you to count the rooms.

Maybe this is good too http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=241515

And the obligatory lego links [21] [22] [23]

83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Bravo! Tempshill (talk) 06:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Royal Gun Works

I have a Royal Gun Works double barrel 12 gauge shotgun #PF1212 and would like to know the approx. year it was manufactured. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aidendevin (talk • contribs) 16:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

A post in this chat thread states that it was made in Belgium by Anciens Établissements Pieper, a company that made guns from 1905 to 1957. That does not narrow it down for you much, I imagine. The Bluebook of Gun Values may help you; it's $5 used (plus shipping) through Amazon's service, or you could probably find it at a library. Tempshill (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

question about poker

In 5 card draw poker with wild cards, which is better, a royal flush or 5 of a kind? Googlemeister (talk) 20:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Sure surprises me that a "googlemeister" couldn't find this faster than asking us. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 20:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

See here for a discussion of the issues involved in ranking hands with wild cards. --Tango (talk) 20:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Or just see List of poker hands. "Normally casino draw poker variants use a joker, and thus the best possible hand is five of a kind Aces, or A♥ A♦ A♣ A♠ J. In lowball, the joker plays as the lowest card not already in the hand." PhGustaf (talk) 02:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Probable law sentence for fanfiction character

Please note that this is not a real scenario, the character involved is a character in a fanfiction: The character has been found guilty of hacking into government files and reading Top Secret documents. I want to give him a reasonable sentence, but have nothing to base it off of. What would be a reasonable sentence? (it's at the end of the story, so don't worry about story convenience.)--Ye Olde Luke (talk) 21:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Gary McKinnon apparently faces a prison term of up to 45 years for something fairly similar. BBC 94.168.184.16 (talk) 22:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Gary McKinnon, who is accused of the "biggest military hack of all time", recently lost his attempt to avoid extradition and now faces up to 70 years in prison if convicted. — Lomn 22:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What country is he being tried in? We can't answer this kind of question if you don't supply such key details. --Tango (talk) 22:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably death or life in quite a few countries. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's America. Sorry, should have mentioned that. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 01:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Another questions for you to help us is 1) what year/era is this taking place? Is it during a time of "cold war" or other real or imagined conflict? 2) What country/agency did the character betray the US to? Russia? China? Cuba? Israel? Nazi Germany? Japan? Torkmann (talk) 01:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The OP never mentioned betrayal, just reading classified documents. In the US there isn't an official secrets act, or anything like it, so I doubt the classification is relevant. The crime would be breaking into a federal building/computer system, I don't know what sentence that carries. (I think the sentences being suggested for McKinnon are because there were multiple infractions, it is a few years for each computer hacked into.) --Tango (talk) 02:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Classification is probably most relevant here for sentencing purposes. Breaking into the Department of Transportation and downloading minutes of their meetings is probably not going to be punished as severely as breaking into the CIA and downloading names of agents. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, are you using "top secret" in the generic sense or in the specific sense? Also note that US government classification usually falls into two categories: Department of Energy clearance, and Department of Defense clearance; there will probably be different rules regarding these. Lots of other information is "restricted" or subject to access control, too. Accessing secret information can be punished by anything ranging from a metaphorical wrist-slap to a harsh prison term, depending on many factors, including the actual information; the intent of the perpetrator; etc. This WikiSource link seems to provide information on the legislation behind the scenes: they say that violations may result in "Sanctions may include reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions in accordance with applicable law and agency regulation." Nimur (talk) 05:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Torkman, it's modern day, exactly as modern day currently is. No imaginary wars have been added. Nimur, the governmental files described a military project being kept hidden from the public involving genetic engineering on animals. The character is a normal citizen, with no governmental rank or job. (He's also a minor character, and I want the sentence to get him out of the picture for the rest of the story.) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 16:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I would think somewhere between 20-50 years would be appear to be appropriate. Googlemeister (talk) 16:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

August 5

Is there a record for most emails in someone's in box?

A friend recently figured out how to get back into his e-mail account, after having gotten a new one. He said he's up to 7,000 e-mails in his in box. He jokingly (well, maybe not, knowing him :-) said he'd like to get it up to 100,000.

I said I thought that would be a record, and wondered, is there a record? A very quick search (it's close to bedtime) didn't reveal any records, though I didn't check Guinness itself; would they have a record listed? Are there unused, unaccessed e-mail accoutns with millions, somewhere int he ether?Somebody or his brother (talk) 02:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I have 9,796 emails in my inbox right now. I received 6,473 spam emails in the last month alone. Your friend's 7,000 is so very much less than unremarkable. I doubt that anyone bar you seeks records in this area, since it would be trivial to break any given record, by the expedient of setting up an email account and sending it the requisite number of emails. Sorry to disappoint. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Another bad situation is when an autoreply replies to an autoreply and you get an email loop. Thousands of emails can accumulate. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Or run a website with a bad hosting company who can't seem to keep their database servers up and running. Then have software on that site that emails you everytime it tries to query a database and fails. 1500 emails in a little over three hours.... At least I learned what the max number of emails you can have in a given "conversation" within Gmail is: 61. After that, it starts a new "conversation" Dismas|^(talk) 05:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems obvious that it would not be trivial to beat any given record but I don't know what would burst first. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I would expect that certain famous individuals (particularly major politicians and senior tech company management) receive hundreds of emails per day. Any address that is widely disseminated (on purpose or by one's enemies) will be the recipient of great wodges of spam. Any public figure will receive friendly and helpful advice and requests from thousands of people every month — now that we don't have to sit down, find paper, type a letter, find an envelope, and buy a stamp, the urge to share our every little thought with our politicians is damn near irresistable. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's been claimed before that Bill Gates receives 4 million emails a day [24]. This wouldn't surprise me since I know of several people who used to fill in askbill@ms... on those annoying email address request things. Although I have the idea the askbill address may have stopped working at some stage anyway Nil Einne (talk) 14:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

dates backwards only in the US

why does every country in the world shows dates as day/month/year ie small/bigger/biggest (units of measurement) except the US which has month/day/year? (bigger,small/biggest). This seems ridiculous. Why is the US out of synch with the rest of the world? are there any other countries like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 05:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Canadians waffle, as in most matters of differences in style between the US and the UK. It's only confusing for days 1 to 12 inclusive of any month. // BL \\ (talk) 05:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Or put another way, it's only confusing for a nearly two-fifths of the days in the year. DuncanHill (talk) 15:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

We Americans like to think that the rest of the world is out of synch with us. :) Actually, military format, which is what you're describing, is used here. It's also the standard date format for Oracle database, for example. And legal documents will typically say "this __ day of ___ in ____". But to really do it right, for sorting purposes, it should be year-month-day. My guess as far as usage goes is that we tend to say "August 4th", for example, and the year gets stuck on the end when the context is unclear. Europeans would tend to say "4th August". But which usage drove which? Are Europeans parroting what's written? Or was it originally spoken that way and the writing parrots the spoken? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The U.S. tends to be out of synch with the rest of the world on a number of issues. I think one main reason is ultimately because the U.S. is more geographically isolated than most countries, so its inhabitants tend to have less of a world viewpoint than in much of the world.

However, It isn’t really true that the whole world except the U.S. uses a day/month/year date format. For example, the ISO 8601 standard YYYY-MM-DD format is common in some countries, as well as in databases and other computer applications. In some countries, it’s common to even use a calendar other than the Gregorian calendar, for example the Islamic calendar, the Iranian calendar, the Ethiopian calendar, or the Thai solar calendar. Red Act (talk) 07:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm in the US, I use YYYY:MM:DD and nobody knows when I wrote my letters. Nobody knows what a decimeter is, either. It's assumed (and is, sadly, mostly true) that the US can pretty much say "to hell with the standards, we're doing it our own way" and have everyone convert their units. ZS 07:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Most countries in East Asia traditionally use Year-Month-Date format (and thus, prefer YYYY-MM-DD today). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

And, to switch, why does the US stick to fractions ? Especially in this computer driven decimal age !86.197.21.121 (talk) 13:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)DT

In what context?AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Stock market, fuel pricing...86.197.21.121 (talk) 15:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)DT

Fuel prices, if you're talking about gasoline/petrol at the pump, is just phrased as fractions for clarity as, for example, "$2.89 9/10". Mills don't exist as negotiable coin or currency, while cents still do, so "2.899/gal." just looks weird by the roadside. Much easier to think in fractions of the smallest tangible coin. But there's utterly no difference in substance. It's not as if the price were "$2.89 5/12" or "$2.89 3/7". (However, as with all such "just-under" prices, there's an element of trivial psychological manipulation, as the 9/10 is smaller than the 9 which precedes it.)

As for stock prices, I think that the New York Stock Exchange did switch from eighths and sixteenths to decimals. Look at some recent quotations. —— Shakescene (talk) 21:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The fraction thing looks weird to me not the reverse. Nil Einne (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What's the point in having things the same? There's enough market around that the variety doesn't affect prices much. Diversity is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to go to another country and find the money the same the language the same the laws the same the electric sockets the same everybody driving on the same side of the road and the same food in the restaurants. Dmcq (talk) 17:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of fractions, I am not yet convinced that there's anything superior about the metric system. You can easily divide a mile, a yard, or a foot by 3. Try doing that with a meter. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

That's not so much a flaw with the metric system as it is with a base-10 numbering system. If only we had two more fingers, we'd have 10s break down into halves, thirds, quarters, and sixths! — Lomn 18:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Just like the English System! Shazam! Maybe those old Anglo-Saxons were 6-fingered? Or maybe they just went with what seemed convenient rather than obsessing over divisibility by 10? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:36, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

As long as we used a base 10 number system, using a base 10 unit system makes a lot of sense. Using anything else is hardly convenient except in a few rare instances. Trying tell me how much 3 yards, 2 feet and 9 inches in inches in under 5 seconds without a calculator. Very few people can. Or worse, 3.029 yards. However anyone with a basic understanding of SI can tell you how much 3 metres, 2 centimetres and 9 millimetres is in millimetres. Ditto for 3.029 metres. Besides that, it's not as if the imperial system and those based on it is even consistent. Sure a foot is 12 inches which is fine. But a yard is 3 feet. And a mile is 1760 yards. It gets even worse once we start to consider more stuff like weight, let alone temperature. And of course once we get to derived units... There's a good reason why nearly all scientists use SI, and it isn't just because of the need for consistency or clarity of communication. Frankly, I'm glad I never had to learn that shit that some people still hold so dear. Sure, it would probably be largely better if we did use base 12, but we don't so it's a moot point. Nil Einne (talk) 19:59, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's amazingly easy to count in twelves on your fingers - you use the thumb to point, and count off the joints on each finger. You can count with one hand, while using the other to hold things. Much easier in fact than counting to ten on the tips of your fingers, which takes two hands and requires a switch of pointer half way through. DuncanHill (talk) 20:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I would note that I think most people count by either lifting up or closing fingers, rather then by pointing. And whatever the case most people didn't do that so we are stuck with base 10. Nil Einne (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The trouble is, if we'd gone with a base-12 numbering scheme, (or better still, like the Egyptians, base 60 - which gives you factors of 2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20 and 30) then we'd all be whining about how much better it would have been to go with base 16 for the sake of computers. As one who does math in base 16 quite a bit - my observation is that the larger the base you go with, the more hassle it is to remember your multiplication tables - but there is a natural trade-off against the number of digits you have to write down and the ease of doing calculations on large numbers. If, for example, you were to learn your multiplication tables in base 60 (a pretty tough feat of memory) - then you'd be able to multiply quite large numbers in your head - and things like phone numbers would need far fewer digits in them.

I've gotta agree about the illogic of the US date system though - either DDMMYYYY or YYYYMMDD would make much more sense. I used to work for Philips (a Dutch company) and we used YYYYMMDD for everything. Being a Brit and living in the US, I once got into a lot of trouble by not showing up for a court appearance until almost a month after it was due because I forgot about the goddamn date reversal...I showed up on 7th August (8/7/xxxx) instead of 8th July (7/8/xxxx)...WHICH WAS NOT GOOD! SteveBaker (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how many people would actually be saying 16 is better. 16 isn't dividable by 3. And let's face it, most people don't really care about hexadecimal, many don't even know what it is and probably don't get why it matters. (I learnt it at an early age due to hex editing savegames and it is taught in some schools but I suspect most people would have forgotten by the time they reach 25 unless they actually work with computer to that level.) The inability to divide by 3 is a frequent complaint, the inability to divide by 4 perhaps to a lesser extent. Although I wonder if everyone would be complaining about 5 if we were 12 or 16. Gotta agree about your views on the date thing however, that's perhaps the worst of all the American oddities Nil Einne (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Hexadecimal (base 16) arose simply as the lowest power of 2 that could accommodate a sufficiently large character set - as an improvement on the more limited octal (base 8). Tom Lehrer once said "Base 8 is just like base 10, really - if you're missing 2 fingers!" Then there's "hex"adecimal, which someone once characterized as number system that had been "bewitched". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:10, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the history, so that may very well be the case, but nowadays hexadecimal has the advantage that two hexadecimal digits represent an 8 bit byte (octet), and many things are either in 8 bit bytes, or multiples thereof. Of course perhaps one of the reasons for this is because of the use of hexadecimal, I don't know Nil Einne (talk) 09:55, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

In Hong Kong, the British date/month is common, but Chinese always refer to 六四 the other way around. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

YYYYMMDD e.g. 20090806 has digit places in regular size order. DDMMYYYY e.g. 06082009 has irregular size order (no one is seriously proposing to express it as 06089002 which would regularise in increasing size order). So they are not equally good. In both cases the leading zeroes on days 1-9 and months 1-9 are needed. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Primates gained an evolutionary boost in the form of their opposable thumbs. One can ask a creationist whether their alleged intelligent designer foresaw its use for handling tools, hitchhiking, operating cellphone keys and counting to 12 on one hand. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:13, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You can count to 11111 if you're willing to use base 2. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

PS: Nil, what about the oddity of the so-called English system units being slightly different to their British homonyms? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:45, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you're referring to. But if you mean the fact that US customary units are slightly different in definition from the British ones, that's just because they were standardised in different ways and at different times (since units were never that well standardised in historic times, with people using different things in different situations). They're still basically the same thing, hence why they have the same names. (Although this is another example of why using the imperial system and those based on it is so problematic.) Do you really think both the Americans and British came up with the name 'gallon' independently? Nil Einne (talk) 09:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Type O Negative

The following information is missing from the relative articles, I am very curious to know what language or pseudo-language is being used on the album Dead Again. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 08:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Corrected link in above question --ColinFine (talk) 20:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's Russian. Seems to be a Russian theme running through the album in general. Fribbler (talk) 13:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It's actually gibberish written in a mix of Cyrillic and Latin letters (was it that hard to find some real words, I wonder?!). The overall theme, however, is indeed Russian, as the picture of Rasputin on the cover would immediately attest.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:16, August 5, 2009 (UTC)

the language "written" on the front is faux cyrillic, but the OP wonders about the actual audio. Fribbler (talk) 16:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

19th Century secrets

Today there are facts that someone knows but by law have to be kept secret from the public, for reasons of national security, commercial secrecy, protection of archeological sites, international relations, witness protection...or other reasons. There are plenty of secrets from the 20th century. Are there secrets from the 19th century ? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, no-one will tell me. But seriously, declassification normally happens in the US after 25 years, unless there are special circumstances. In the UK, I believe it's 50 years. Other countries probably have limits too. In addition, it seems most secrecy legislation only came into place in the 20th century. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I never heard of secret archeological sites. Can you cite one which is secret?--Quest09 (talk) 10:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Keeping an archaeological site a secret while the excavation is carried out, is sometimes necessary if the find is valuables like jewelry and/or it is an area that is prone to looting. However as soon as the excavation is over the secrecy is lifted (at least in the cases that I know of). --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The most recent I can think of where the location is kept secret would be one of the many findings of Odyssey Marine Exploration. Nanonic (talk) 13:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there are plenty of 19th century secrets. A wonderful book on the entire practice of 19th century secrets (in the UK) is David Vincent, The culture of secrecy: Britain, 1832-1998. It's a wonderfully fun book. All of the things you listed above existed in the 19th century as well, and much more (there were attempts in the UK, for example, to keep effective methods of birth control generally secret, for moral reasons). Though technical secrets for military purposes is something that didn't come into vogue in most places until World War I. Certainly they had industrial trade secrets—you can find evidence of those as far back to Ancient times. If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask. It is true that the government secrecy infrastructure of the US, UK, etc. increased dramatically in the twentieth century, esp. around the periods of WWI and WWII (and went bonkers during the Cold War and afterwards, where millions of documents were being classified as secret per year). But there were all sorts of other secrets as well. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the OP means things that are *still* secret. --Tango (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes I do mean that. We can safely say there is nobody alive today who keeps a personal secret from before year 1900. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:02, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Whilst both US and UK have laws opening up secret documents after so many years - they both have clauses that enable their respective governments to redact either parts of those documents or entire documents for a wide range of reasons. So I'm pretty sure there are a ton of things still being kept secret from 100 years ago. SteveBaker (talk) 21:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

There are secrets much older than that. Greek fire is a famous example - it was a state secret of the Byzantine Empire, and it was kept so well that we still don't know what was in it. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

There is a difference between secrets and lost knowledge. There are plenty of secrets that people took with them to their graves, that's not interesting. I'm sure the OP means things which some people do still know (or, at least, are in archives somewhere). --Tango (talk) 21:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you mean things STILL secret. OK. Well, I doubt there's anything still classified under U.S. government laws from that time period. The earliest I have ever heard are things from World War I relating to cryptography, secret writing, etc. The main reason you wouldn't have much from that time period still secret is because there weren't regular secrecy laws at that point—there was no procedure for making something "officially" secret in a way that would be legally binding over a long period of time. (You could write "secret" on a piece of paper in the Civil War, but there was no official categorization scheme.) As for things that were kept secret and just never seen again, thought of, or figured out... sure, that's definitely the case, though no governments are actively trying to keep such things secret. In general, in terms of secrets, it is easy to make a new secret (whole branches of the government have practically everything they produce be classified in one way or another); it is relatively hard to "take back" a released secret (reclassification); it is not easy at all to classify something that was never previously officially classified, as all pre-WWI materials would be in the US, for example. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

A caveat. There are a lot of historical materials kept in private or provincially-run archives. Embarrassing personal papers, even for figures long, LONG since dead, can easily be kept out of public circulation by such people. I have heard stories of archives today refusing to release information about a certain famous Russian bigamist which was thought to be embarrassing to a great hero. So I guess there are things like that, as well. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 22:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Victorian morality demanded secrecy about such facts of life as how two make a baby (in spite of an occasional revealing book or magazine). I have been told that Queen Victoria when she received her first practical demonstration (in 1840?) declared "Oh Albert, this is far too good for the ordinary people!". Another fine lady of the period on becoming aware of the controversy surrounding the publication in 1859 of On the Origin of Species commented "I cannot say whether Mr. Darwin is correct in his theory that we are descended from apes. But if that is found to be true, I hope it does not become generally known". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:33, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The secret journals detailing the perverse and licentious affairs of James Boswell were kept secret by his heirs from his death in 1795 until the 1920's. His heirs used black ink to cover up the naughty bits, but the editor managed to read the original text through the ink. Some hypothesized "affairs" of state, such as some member of a royal family being involved in the Jack the Ripper murders, might be kept as official secrets as long as the particular dynasty remained in power. The Catholic Church had someone forge a "Donation of Constantine" in the mid 8th century, purporting to be from the 4th century, which gave them control of worldly estates. A priest in 1440 wrote a book exposing the fraud, based on textual analysis and historical errors in the document, but the Church still banned the book 200 years later. It is rumored that in the archives of the KGB were Czarist records showing that Stalin had worked for the Czar's secret police, the Okhrana, starting back in 1899. Many a regime has sought to avoid exposing secrets which might be embarrassing or which might provoke unrest. Edison (talk) 02:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

investment analysis

discus the aptness of applying capital market theory to real estate investment analysis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgekalusanga (talk • contribs) 11:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried looking at our articles on capital market, investment analysis, and Real estate appraisal and the external links from these articles? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Walking in zig-zags

I've seen a woman in my area out and about a few times, and she has the most peculiar way of walking. She literally walks in zig-zags, and not just each stride or anything like that, she walks from one side of the road or path to the other, turning at 90 degree angles, and she keeps doing that even after she's turned around the corner. The first time I saw her doing it she was walking downhill, so I assumed she was doing it to lower the resistance on her knees (she's slightly overweight) by walking along the side of the hill instead of directly down it. I've seen her since doing it on a flat path, and on a sidewalk only 2 meters wide (2 or three steps per diagonal). She also has a huge cross on her chest. I'm left assuming she's bonkers, but could there be any physical, diet-related, or religious reason for this particular behaviour? Thanks. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 15:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

OCD possibly. Dismas|^(talk) 15:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd probably assume it is down to a slightly non-straight stride (slight difference in leg-length, slight difference in way places weight from foot to foot) and that she's not thinking about it but when she gets to the edge of the path she corrects, and thus it causes this. It could be an OCD type thing (my years playing Counter-strike have taught me that zig-zag walking in games reduces the ease at which average-competence snipers can kill me. Always thought such a thing would make for a decent real-life mental disease comedy-sketch (if a little geeeky for the general public). 15:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

I sooooooooooooo miss that game!!! Never managed to find the version of this game i once played on a massive LAN in a computer shop... It was about 8 years ago now though so I assume no-one plays it online anymore...  :( AH well... Gazhiley (talk) 11:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Was she walking upwind? Maybe she thinks she's an entry in the America's Cup race, and was tacking. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:33, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe she thinks she is light in a fiber optic tube. Googlemeister (talk) 20:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Could it be that she's blind and is using one of those sonar contraptions to detect the edge of the sidewalk and the wall on the other side? She would have to adopt the strategy of walking in a straight line until the machine goes "beep" then turning slightly to avoid hitting whatever it is. SteveBaker (talk) 21:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Models on a catwalk often use a walk which is like that of a cat, placing one foot directly in front of the other to produce an alluring swagger in which the hips take on a more exaggerated movement. Another possibility to consider is that the lady has had one tee many martoonies. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Just what I was thinking - could simply be intoxicated. I recall years ago a panel cartoon showing a drunk walking home. He was zigzagging all over the sidewalk. Then he ran into a part of the sidewalk which itself zigzagged - and he inadvertently ended up walking in a straight line through that part of it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:06, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Might be practicing techniques for walking a straight line on a moving train or during an earthquake. More likely OCD. Edison (talk) 02:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I used to play CS too, but to be honest she wasn't strafing; it's like she's using the mouse to turn, and very accurately at that. She's not blind either, because she scowled at me when she saw me looking at her, though I admit it's all very reminiscent of the robot walking mechanism, so I guess there is a possibility she could have some sort of selective visual disorder, or a spacial coordination problem. I guess OCD is a possibility, how obvious can something like that be? She didn't appear troubled at all, and was walking in such a nonchalant way that it was hard to believe there was anything wrong with her. I guess that just added to the tragic comedy of it all. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 11:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

online job

I want some online job like deta transfer or other job.will you suggest some web address from where I get this type job?Supriyochowdhury (talk) 15:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"Data transfer" isn't a job I'm familiar with. Also, there really isn't any web address out there that you can just visit and get a job. It's most likely going to take more than that. If you can be a little more specific about what kind of work you're looking for, we can probably give you some pointers, though. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 21:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you looked at guru.com? Tempshill (talk) 21:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

There are places that will pay you for tasks such as typing in phone books in order that they can cold-call the victims listed within. However, I would caution you that many of those schemes are set up in ways that make it tanatmount to slave labor. They tend to pay you by the number of entries you type in - then DEDUCT a fairly large amount for every mistake you make. Knowing the error rate of typical typists - they set things up so that they hardly have to pay you anything for all your hard (and mind-numbing) work. Be sure you read ALL of the fine-print on the agreement and look hard for any loopholes they've put there...I guarantee you'll find some. The problem is that this work can be done by people in countries where the hourly wage is a TINY fraction of what it's likely to be wherever you live...in order for it to be cost-effective to have you do it, there has to be a scam of some description behind it. SteveBaker (talk) 21:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is true, but does not apply to more serious sites like guru.com above or elance.com. There are also real descent well-paid services that are traded online. --Quest09 (talk) 09:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

From the look of it, guru.com seems to be just some sort of listing site, where many people can list. If so, I don't see any reason to presume all the jobs available thereare magically excellent jobs and without abusive conditions. I know of someone who nearly took up a job accepting money from phished accounts which was offered via a highly reputable job seeking site here in NZ (can't remember which, but it was either [25] or [26] IIRC). He realised something was fishy (pun unintended, seriously) however and made a police report IIRC. In other words, just because the site is reputable doesn't mean all the employers are. Indeed the article on guru.com says "Some customers (freelancers)[who?] are dissatisfied with Guru.com's strong employer bias. "I make sure that my subscribers know that they are not my customer -- the employer is," said Inder Guglani,[2] and Guru.com site policies reflect Mr. Guglani's philosophy." Nil Einne (talk) 10:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Tennis Racket

I've taken up tennis recently after a long layoff. My racket is over 15 years old and doesn't have the string tension it had when new. I don't want to have it restrung yet. What can I do to preserve the life of the strings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.195.3.244 (talk) 16:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

My racket has this rubber thing at the bottom of the strings, preserving the string tension. see picture. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 16:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Most tennis racquets can be restored satisfactorily by replacing the frame and strings. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The rubber thing on the strings is there to dampen racket vibration, or more likely just to change the sound on impact. I've never heard any claims that it "preserves string tension", nor can I imagine how it might do something like that. A tennis racket, like a guitar, probably isn't much good to you if you leave it for 15 years. The strings will stretch over time, and probably become hard and brittle. If you really don't care enough to have it restrung, then don't, and use it as it is. If it's unplayable as it is, you'll have to get it restrung (it's not that expensive), though I'm willing to bet there's been a considerable amount of warpage to your racket frame over the last 15 years. 210.254.117.186 (talk) 02:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

twice as wide

It seems that nobody is online at the math’s reference desk... So I would like to as you: We have a question in the german wiki reference desk that can only be answered by a native speaker. How would an english native speaker understand the sentence (from a test): "Now find at least three positions where you can put the light and the card to make a shadow twice as wide as the card." Does the question in that test mean a shadow width twice as wide as the edge width of the card or twice as wide as the whole card? --Ian Dury^{Hit me} 17:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

As stated, the question doesn't mean one or the other; the meaning might be discoverable with the complete text, but as is, it is ambiguous. --LarryMac | Talk 17:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

If the question is referring to a playing card, I think it would be most common to call the card’s longest size the “height”, the card’s shortest size the “thickness”, and the card’s intermediate size the “width”. I’d be pretty sure that the person who wrote that question intended “twice as wide as the card” to mean twice the card’s intermediate size. Red Act (talk) 17:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much. In fact the questioner thought it may be ambigious. Agreeing to that I suggested the answer from Red Act. The question was of course translated into german, but somewhat wrong, I think. The re-translation from German to English would be: twice as big. --Ian Dury^{Hit me} 17:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily: The shadow may be twice as wide but the height may also be twice as long, thus the shadowed area would be four times as big (by area), ie "vier mal so groß". The translation "doppelt so groß" is ambiguous, as I (a native German speaker) would understand this to mean the area. This is, "doppelt so groß" could also mean to place the light in a positon where the height of the card is doubled but not the width, or to place the light in a position where width (of shadow) times height (of shadow) is twice the area of the "real" card. In neither case the width of the card´s shadow would be twice the width of the real card. As I don´t know the original TIMMS text, I may misunderstand the question, anyway. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

As a former test writer, I would expect the intent to be "twice the width." The answerer should consider the light to card distance and the card to screen distance. "Twice the area" would perhaps be allowed if clearly explained. Edison (talk) 02:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Nordstrom and Paypal connection???

I had a debit card on my Paypal account. That card got lost. I called my bank and cancelled the card. (all this happened over a year ago). I recently attempted to purchase something online from Nordstrom. I entered in the debit card # of my lost card into Nordstrom's website (2 days ago) and it got denied (no surprise there). Today, I receive an email from paypal saying that they have removed a debit card from my Paypal account. Are these events related? How?--12.48.220.130 (talk) 17:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps Paypal realised that your old card had been cancelled and thought to themselves what is the point of a cancelled card on this person's account - let's cancel it. The odd thing is why you entered the cancelled card number. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 17:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

But how did Paypal find out? Where did the get the information from, when I entered the card number onto Nordstrom's website? I entered it accidentally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.48.220.130 (talk) 17:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess they used the same system that they use to validate your card (or anybody's card). They have some sort of card registration centre that they have access to. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 20:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What was the expiry date? It may just be a coincidence and the card would have expired at the end of July and Paypal have gone through tidying up old cards. --Tango (talk) 03:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

They all use the same program, your card details go through to aperson/program that enters the details this then comes back with an auth code or declined. This info would be related to all involved to ensure that a stolen/ canx card does not get used by a theif on a diff web site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 07:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

what metal

What metal was used in the production of a 1939-40 5 Rial Iranian coin? Googlemeister (talk) 18:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

According to Iranian_rial#Coins the second issue coins were silver

quote

"Second rial:The first coins of the second rial currency were in denominations of 1, 2, 5, 10 and 25 dinar, ½, 1, 2 and 5 rial, with the ½ to 5 rial coins minted in silver. Gold coins denominated in pahlavi were also issued, initially valued at 100 rial. In 1944, the silver coinage was reduced in size, with the smallest silver coins being 1 rial pieces."

Given that 5rials were silver in 1935 [27], and the switch to alloy coins happened much later (1950s I think) it looks like the answer is silver.83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I got that they are silver, but are they 100% silver, or is it a mix like American coins at that time were? Googlemeister (talk) 19:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What mix where the american coins?83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

US silver coins at that time were 90% silver 10% copper. British were 92.5% silver, not sure on the remainder. Googlemeister (talk) 20:28, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Silver standards for Iran in the 20th century include .84 and .90 silver

However for coins, around 1910 5 dinars were .6655 [28], it's unlikely that the content improved, so I'd expect .6655 (or maybe less)83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

TV ratings and muting of commercials

Do any of the meters used to produce TV ratings track whether or not the viewer mutes the TV during commercials? NeonMerlin 18:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this could be technically accomplished, since volume is almost always a function of the TV itself (that is, the end device) rather than a meter, cable box, or other intermediate device. — Lomn 18:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree — the remote that is actually used in my house is the cable TV remote, and the "Mute" button on that may send out the mute command for the TV or may send out the mute command for the cable box; I'm not sure. If NeonMerlin's data collection scheme were desirable then the cable TV company would set it up to be the latter, and track it. Tempshill (talk) 21:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The devices they connect to TV's in order to collect viewer data are pretty sophisticated. They can even tell which people are in the room with the TV and who is watching and who is turned around playing with their computers. I don't think they'd have any trouble figuring out whether the mute circuit was activated or not. Remember - the people who submit to this monitoring are paid for their trouble and put under some pretty severe restrictions. Personally - I doubt very much whether the ratings are actually worth the paper they are printed on because there is a ton of bias built into the system. Do people who mute adverts - or use their TiVo to skip past them actually volunteer for ratings monitoring? If so, do they change their viewing habits while they are being monitored? I bet they do. SteveBaker (talk) 21:02, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What? Really? There's an automated (i.e. not the user-filled survey) method of determining who's watching? I know the paper surveys ask for this info, but as you've noted, that's subject to extreme bias. As for the Tivo, my understanding is that the ad-skipping is monitored universally. My mute function, though -- even on the Tivo remote -- is the TV's native command. The Tivo doesn't know what that particular IR signal means. Supposing any sort of piggybacked Tivo signal with the mute command isn't reasonable, as IR commands are dropped all the time and the Tivo would quickly be out of state with the display. While it's certainly possible to route mute through a cable box (and to be fair, it appears some people meters do this), the inability to force a single-source command (are they listening to the commercial? did they just mute the TV itself? Are they really using our remote or going back to one of the three others they're already familiar with?) makes any sort of objective measurement impossible. — Lomn 21:28, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

My interesting question of the day is whether the cable TV companies in the US are actively monitoring all the activity of their customers who have digital set-top boxes, and then selling that data — or, at least, using it internally for analysis of their customers' viewing. I may have "agreed" to this monitoring in the small print of my subscriber agreement — I don't have any idea. Even if not, presumably all my activity is being logged back at the head office, under the rubric of "collecting data to make sure our systems are working properly". Tempshill (talk) 21:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

In the US they have "Nielson boxes" which do it all automatically (in addition to paper surveys, I believe). It gets plugged into your TV somehow and keeps note of what you watch. As far as I know, the UK just uses the paper surveys. --Tango (talk) 00:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Jokes and political correction

Is there any serious study relating differences in jokes and the political correct movement? (this question is not a joke).--Quest09 (talk) 18:44, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I would dispute that there is such a thing as the politicall(ly) correct movement. The term is almost always applied by critics to people or groups who are applying strictures they wish to attack or ridicule. --ColinFine (talk) 20:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

But it's amazing how quickly people will latch on to perceived political correctness. A couple of years ago, some bright spark announced that, for reasons that completely escaped me, saying "Ho, ho, ho" at Christmas time could be offensive. Then before you knew it, thousands of people were saying, literally, We're not allowed to say "Ho, ho, ho" any more, as if there had been some government decree making this utterance punishable by imprisonment. Same thing happened with "Merry Christmas". Someone went too far in protecting the feelings of non-Christians, so now it's routinely "Happy holidays". Bah, humbug, I say. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:36, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"Politically correct" was actually used by progressives in the 1960's — although sometimes also with an ironic allusion to Stalinist countries where dissident factions (e.g Trotskyists) could face dire consequences for being "politically incorrect, comrade".

But it didn't take very long for "PC" to achieve its pejorative connotations of censoriousness and censorship.

I don't think there's any conspiracy against Christmas. I'm not a Christian but I often wish people Merry Christmas (or Happy Hanukkah or best wishes for Ramadan). I also often just say Happy Holidays because I don't how they'd feel. Those who are most frantic about "Happy Holidays" being some kind of anti-Christmas conspiracy are probably those who'd be most taken aback if they were constantly wished a Happy Hanukkah or Happy New Year at Rosh Hashannah.

But I'm not quite sure what the question is asking. Do you mean are there studies showing changes in jokes since, say 1965? That's not necessarily, in my opinion, always a bad thing. U.S. cartoons before 1940 show Jews, Mexicans and Negroes in a very different way than most of us would find funny or acceptable, so they're often edited before being shown today. Even Mickey Rooney's portrayal of a Japanese photographer in Breakfast at Tiffany's (1961) is just embarrassing. And both Mr Rooney and the director Blake Edwards are happily still with us. Similarly for Bob Newhart's more-recent routine about Asian women drivers. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The title is amusingly misleading, as it's not how it's actually expressed, which is "political correctness", but "correction" is the intent of folks who harp on it too much - i.e. censoriousness. It's a term often used by the right to ridicule the left as being "too sensitive", yet there is also right-wing political correctness - basically, things you're not supposed to say. Right wingers talk about "Winter Holiday" being PC, but actually Christmas usurped the already-existing winter holiday and arbitrarily assigned it as the birthday of Jesus, which in reality is unknown. And if any politician dares to make fun of religion, the right wing will suddenly become very sensitive. Where the right fails on this is when it comes to racial and ethnic stereotyping, which are unacceptable in our somewhat more enlightened society. Pop culture, especially vaudeville, was rife with stereotypes, much of it probably a product of the ethnic diversity in the big cities. It may or may not have been intended to be harmful. It's just out of fashion, at the very least. I'm thinking about the Marx Brothers, as Chico was known for his fake Italian accent which he retained from the stage; Groucho did a fake German accent in some of his bits, but not in films to speak of. They themselves were Jewish, and there was no shortage of stereotypes about Jews. Basically they all made fun of each other. Films and cartoons and phonograph records from that era are loaded with stereotypes - to the point where the WB DVD's hired Whoopi Goldberg to record a disclaimer for some of them. That old-fashioned stereotyping was a curious mix of both celebrating and putting down ethnic diversity. We still like to celebrate ethnic diversity. Putting it down is what's out of fashion - except when someone is trying to make a point of some kind, typically for shock value. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Leaders of the U.S. Reconstruction Finance Corporation

I got thoroughly snarled up last night in trying to adjust the succession boxes for Calvin Coolidge's Vice-President Charles G. Dawes, who was later briefly either chairman or president of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (ca. 1931-57), and then in adjusting the succession boxes for subsequent leaders of the RFC. When a government entity or a direct successor has lasted into the age of the World Wide Web, it's usually fairly easy to find a list of its previous principal officials, either at the organization's own site, or at a place like World Statesmen.org.

But the RFC is much murkier (as it was during its TARP-like origins as a bailout mechanism for banks after the international financial crisis of 1931). Apparently its first chairman was Eugene Meyer, also Chairman of the Federal Reserve, and its first president was Dawes. Dawes (whose terms is said to have begun with the RFC's formal establishment on February 2, 1932) had to resign suddenly on June 7, 1932, after questions about RFC loans to his own bank, and was succeeded by Atlee Pomerene — an Ohio Democratic politician who'd prosecuted the Teapot Dome defendants in 1924. But some sources say Pomerene was chairman and others president. (Pomerene himself had to resign the next year after similar questions about home-bank favoritism.) When Franklin D. Roosevelt became President of the U.S. on March 4, 1933, he chose the Texas financier and Democratic stalwart Jesse H. Jones (who became Secretary of Commerce in 1940) to headed the RFC, but under what title I'm not sure. Some sources say he led the RFC from 1933 to 1945. But my 1943 World Almanac and Book of Facts, which devotes pages 626-628 to the RFC and its subsidiaries including Fannie Mae (FNMA), lists Charles B. Henderson as chairman with four other directors, none of whom is Jones, but no president. (Wikipedia says Henderson served as chairman from 1941 to 1947.)

I suppose I should confine this question to the RFC talk page, but it's not an active page, and the varied expertise on the Help Desk seems like a better place to find out where to obtain a good list or at least some clarification.

I can make some estimates and guesses (e.g., did Henderson succeed Jones directly?) but I'd much rather be entering supported facts than suppositions and plausible conclusions. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I don't know anything about this, but Amazon shows a 1977 book and a 1988 book and a few others that are 99% likely to be more useful than any articles on the Web. I was surprised to see that 1988 book is going for $197 used. Sounds like a trip to the library would be preferable. Tempshill (talk) 21:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

August 6

110 v 220 volts

why do some countries have 110 volts electricity and others 220? surely the first one invented would have taken over. which is more common? Also, why are there so many types of wall sockets in the world? once again why didn't the first one invented become the standard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.43.53 (talk) 00:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

See Mains_voltage#History_of_voltage_and_frequency and AC power plugs and sockets. They should get you started. --Tango (talk) 00:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

(ec)According to Mains electricity, it was driven in respective countries by optimizing voltage for a specific type of lightbulb. Edison's type was optimal at about 110, and the one invented in Germany or someplace was optimal at about 220. It's kind of like the question of why some countries drive on the left and some on the right. They independently established their national standards, and stuck with them. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The mains power systems article shows the great diversity in both voltage and frequency (Hz). It's kinda like asking why don't humans all speak the same language which would be much more convenient! -hydnjo (talk) 00:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

It's not even within different countries - the two main islands of Japan have different standards! SteveBaker (talk) 00:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

And the USA uses 110 or 220 depending on the type of appliance. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Edison was concerned with safety. He argued that AC (with power lines at thousands of volts, to be stepped down just outside the home) was more dangerous than lower voltage DC (with lines leaving the generating station at 100 or 110 volts, but only economical to carry power a mile or less). Electrocution is less likely with 110 than 220. Countries establishing central power stations later benefitted from improved insulation and perhaps were less concerned with occasional electrocutions scaring people out of having their homes wired. The higher voltage is much more economical of copper. The initial central DC station used 100 volts DC, and it was raised to 110to get more power out, then later to 120 AC as a standard as measured at the meter. 110 would be illegal low voltage in the U.S. today, per state utility regulations. The voltage at the appliance might be 110 if the meter receives 120, due to voltage drop in the wiring. Changing the U.S. standard would have required scrapping all motors and appliances, and perhaps switches and outlets. Yet, such changes can be achieved, as was done in adopting digital TV recently. Edison (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That was his public stance. He was also concerned with keeping his company going. Thus he fought Tesla... and lost. But he was better at marketing. Tom Edison, great inventor that he was, also showed a remarkable tendency to invent something and then stick with it rather than innovating. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:24, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You can say that again! Edison (talk) 18:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That was... No! Not this rut again! :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Disney tv shows

Is there a way to watch the following tv shows on the internet for free? The tv shows I'm after are Disney sitcoms from [29]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.138.117 (talk) 03:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You may find them at ovguide.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.225.133.60 (talk) 03:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Torrent to torrent download. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 07:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Try the disney-website - a lot of companies stream their shows online these days. You certainly shouldn't illegally download them (and we certainly shouldn't have the reference desk promote the illegal downloading of copyrighted content). 15:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

Shouldn't and shouldn't... The question was "Is there a way..." not "How can I, in a legal way,..." /Coffeeshivers (talk) 16:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah - and the answer could be an unqualified "Yes" or "No" without further explanation. We all know WHY the OP needs to know - and dodging the issue like that is pointless. We should stick to advice of a legal nature and not stray into helping people to break the law. SteveBaker (talk) 01:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Ipod

How can I connect my Ipod to my Sony (maybe Panasonic) Hi Fi? It has a usb port on the front, but when I put my Ipod, or a flsh drive in there it says Unsupport In fact what can I plug into this port to make it work. I have put about 3 months worth of music on my Ipod, but some times I want to listen to music through proper speakers, eg a party. Any help in this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ~~Zionist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 06:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

(moved to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science#Ipod) — QuantumEleven 08:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You can't use USB for this (unless your Hi Fi supports it, which, if you're calling it a HiFi, probably doesn't.) Does your Hi Fi have auxiliary input jacks in the back? If so, you'll need a cable that goes from 1/8" TRS connector (the iPod headphone jack) to whatever is on the back of the HiFi, probably RCA connectors. They're commonly available. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That does raise the question of the purpose of the USB port on the front of the Hi-Fi though, if it's not for plugging an ipod or flash drive into. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 19:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Good point. My cable set-top box has one for some mysterious reason (yeah, I know the boxes are pretty generic and some cable services might use it); my TV has one for firmware updates; I obviously made an assumption based on the terminology -- as soon as heard "hi fi" I pictured my Dad's bronze front Harmon Kardon that he was so proud of. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 23:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

income statement

what are the key things taht a compant income statement would show? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 07:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here to not do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Thank you. — QuantumEleven 08:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

His spelling could use a little help, too. There's a wikipedia article on Income statement. That would be a good starting point. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Type O Negative

I asked a question yesterday or the day before, but may have worded it badly. What I meant to ask is what language is he singing in? I realise that the wording on the album cover and sleave is pseudo-russian. But being a band from NY, I cant see why he would be fluent in russian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 07:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Why not? People come to New York from all over the world, including Russia. Although the singer's article doesn't say anything about Russian, he could easily come from an ethnic Russian backgroung, have spent some time in Russia, or taken some classes in the languge. Astronaut (talk) 09:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesnt sound like russian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 12:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

What songs can we listen to to hear the language? Fribbler (talk) 16:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Why do people need to be fluent in a language to sing in it? There are lots of examples of songs where the singer learned the words fo-net-tick-all-lee and never actually learned the language of the song. --Jayron32 01:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

They don't. As a quick example, Richie Valens did not speak Spanish, yet he sang "La Bamba" acceptably. I've heard from musically-inclined friends that even if someone doesn't speak a language, good singers will try to understand the words and meaning of a particular song they're singing. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Handkerchiefs as fashion accessories.

This is a silly question I know - but bear with me. I am going to a wedding tomorrow so I have been instructed to take a proper linen handkerchief with me instead of my usual tissues. Which got me to thinking about how we humans have managed to see such accessories as fashion items instead of functional necessities. Think of what you actually DO with a hanky - yuk - and then ask why it needs to be pure white, made of washable fabric that looks nice when ironed, and looks even better when embroidered with your initials. Then think of sexy underwear - for both sexes - they were originally designed to keep your outerwear free from urine and faecal staining - SEXY? - I think not. And what about spectacles? Usefully designed to compensate for poor vision, they now cost an arm and a leg and change designs more often than underwear changes (joke). And womens' brassieres - a clothing item designed to support sagging mammary glands - functional in true intent - but now deemed absolutely essential to the fashionista. So - the question? How have we become so immune to the idiocy that pervades such conflicts between functionality and fashion; and how do we even manage to ignore the significant cost differentials? I mean, if I wear a pair of CK's instead of their Walmart equivalent, do I look more like David Beckham as a result? I will answer that myself? NO. 92.23.93.206 (talk) 16:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me there was a discussion recently about marketers "creating markets". And nowhere is that more evident than the fashion industry. However, there is no law compelling you to conform. That's still a personal choice. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

We like to avoid thinking about and drawing attention to such things. That's why table manners developed: to elevate an animal instinct and biological necessity, and something that may have rather unpleasant connotations (ie: the killing of an animal; cutting flesh with knives; feeding the body) to something refined and orderly. Exploding Boy (talk) 16:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

As you say, you ask many silly questions. Dressy garb for men can include a "pocket square", a bit of silk of compatible color to one's necktie, worn in the left pocket of the jacket. If you fold it right, all four corners show. You never ever blow your nose into it. Nor do you ever put a pocket protector full of pens, mirrors, and scales into that pocket. PhGustaf (talk) 17:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

"One for showing, one for blowing." As far as folding, there's no one "right" way; the number of points, and the style of folding, is one of the rare pieces of sartorial freedom in men's formal wear. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 17:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That was what I was going to say, too, the old saw, "One to show, one to blow." Regarding folding, though, the men should all be dressed identically, right? So they should probably come to consensus on the manner of folding. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Our article Fashion, not a bad article, says, "The beginnings of the habit in Europe of continual and increasingly rapid change in styles can be fairly reliably dated to the middle of the 14th century". Bastards. Tempshill (talk) 18:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, around the time of the emergence from the Dark Ages, right? After the Black Death had run its course, maybe? One good thing about the plague, for the survivors anyway, was that it caused a labor shortage, so wages tended to rise - along with, presumably, a rise in interest in caring about fashion and other items that are well down the "hierarchy of needs" list. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots

Many white-things that shouldn't be white will have their roots in 'showing off' that you can afford to keep purchasing them to keep them smart, and also that you are clean and respectable so you must be of a high class (or at least high enough that your work is not dirty). ny156uk (talk) 20:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The point of many such apparently arbitrary and culturally variable requirements in dress and/or behaviour is not their own intrinsic value (though they may have some - for example an otherwise unused handkerchief is always useful to me to polish my spectacles) but that your displaying them demonstrates that you are willing to go to some trouble to learn about and conform with them and thus demonstrate your respect for those with whom you are mingling. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Clothing fashion is not unlike evolution of species in that we can never tell where it will take us, we have to marvel at the diversity and bizzareness of the developed fashions and we spend time wondering for what reason this or that has developed (as if there was a cogent reason). However unlike the evolution of species fashion eventually repeats itself over an unspecified timespan. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 06:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

No kidding. Perhaps you've heard of the big controversy during the Ice Age, over whether saber-toothed tiger skins or wooly mammoth skins were more hep. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

A Circuit City(?) commercial showed a boyfriend with an electronic scoreboard on his date. Where's the commercial?

There is a video-game-like scoreboard on the top right or left of the TV screen. The man picks up his date. What he does determines how many points he earns or gets taken away. He tells her "Your eyes are so blue," and earns 100 points. She replies with, "Dude, they're brown!" and gets 200 points subtracted.

Then they're at a dinner in a restaurant. He listens to her, and keeps getting 50 points every few seconds for listening. He looks at another pretty girl walking by, and 1500 points get deducted. He tells his date, "Why can't other girls dress more like you?" Then he adds 2,000 points back to his score.

When he drops her off, he asks, "So, how about a kiss?" She looks scared, and 3,000 points get taken off. Then he says, "But we'll wait, 'til we really get to know each other!" Then he earns 10,000 points.

The scene cuts to the guy and the gal playing video games on a store video game display. I'm not quite sure whether this was a Circuit City commercial.

But will anyone here please help me find the commercial matching this description? I've been meaning to watch it again for years. (I've already tried searching for it, but I might not be using the right keywords because I still haven't found it yet.) --Let Us Update Special:Ancientpages. 18:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Blackberry Problem

_{Moved to the Computing Desk Fribbler (talk) 19:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)}

August 7

When is ESUT having their post UME please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ikenna Osita (talk • contribs) 04:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

WW2 crime responsibility

The article says John Demjanjuk is being tried for the murder of thousands of people because they were killed while he worked as a guard at that camp. What exactly determines who is responsible and who was just doing what they were told? 71.176.139.194 (talk) 05:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

"Victor's justice" is the term for the victors in a war punishing members of the losing forces, while ignoring war crimes by their own forces. "I was merely following orders" has been discredited as a defense to be used by members of the losing side. Edison (talk) 05:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I was watching the Discovery Channel's reruns of their series of interviews with Walter Cronkite from 12 years ago. He talked about the Nuremberg Trials, and pointed out that those Trials were necessary, to stand up for something, to do something about the gross atrocities committed by the Nazis. "Victor's justice", yes, but something had to be done with those evil characters. Having said that, I'm not at all sure they've got the goods on Demjanjuk, and it looks kind of like scapegoating of a low-end figure in the Nazi regime, of which there aren't many left. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:33, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Buying Expensive Ballpoint Pens

Do high-end ballpoint pens such as Montblanc ones offer any performance advantages over cheaper ones that one can find in everyday department stores? Acceptable (talk) 09:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

They are often more comfortable to hold and write with, are usually more durable than cheap ones. They are also refillable, although only the very cheapest are not. But, in my opinion, you don't need to buy anything as high-end as a Montblanc to get all those features. Warofdreams talk 10:07, 7 August 2009 (UTC)