Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment

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Case requests

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

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Open cases

Case name	Links	Evidence due	Prop. Dec. due
Backlash to diversity and inclusion	(t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t)	10 Oct 2024	24 Oct 2024

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Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Historical elections	13 Sep 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Clarification request: Infoboxes	none	(orig. case)	12 October 2013
[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Clarification request: Ayn Rand|Clarification request: Ayn Rand]]	none	(orig. case)	11 October 2013
Clarification request: Race and intelligence	none	none	6 October 2013

Arbitrator motions

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

Requests for clarification and amendment

Use this page to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

• Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
• Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).

To file a clarification or amendment request: (you must use this format!)

1. Choose one of the following options and open the page in a new tab or window:
   • Click here to file a request for clarification of an arbitration decision or procedure.
   • Click here to file a request for amendment of an arbitration decision or procedure (including an arbitration enforcement action issued by an administrator, such as a contentious topics restriction).
2. Save your request and check that it looks how you think it should and says what you intended.
3. If your request will affect or involve other users (including any users you have named as parties), you must notify these editors of your submission; you can use {{subst:Arbitration CA notice|SECTIONTITLE}} to do this.
4. Add the diffs of the talk page notifications under the applicable header of the request.

This is not a discussion. Please do not submit your request until it is ready for consideration; this is not a space for drafts, and incremental additions to a submission are disruptive.

Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment.

Requests from blocked or banned users should be made by e-mail directly to the Arbitration Committee.

Only Arbitrators and Clerks may remove requests from this page. Do not remove a request or any statements or comments unless you are in either of these groups. There must be no threaded discussion, so please comment only in your own section. Archived clarification and amendment requests are logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Clarification and Amendment requests. Numerous legacy and current shortcuts can be used to more quickly reach this page:

Clarification request: Infoboxes

Initiated by uninvolved Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) at 03:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Infoboxes arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Gerda Arendt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified
• Neutralhomer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified

Statement by Anthonyhcole

In expanding Quattro pezzi sacri from a stub, Gerda added an infobox.[1] Neutralhomer offered to add infoboxes to articles for Greda.[2] Is Gerda permitted to add infoboxes to articles she significantly expands? In cases where she is not permitted to add infoboxes is it OK for Neutralhomer to add them on her behalf? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 03:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Neutralhomer

As I said on the ANI thread, if Gerda needs an infobox placed on any of the numerous pages she edits, I volunteer myself to add it. There are instances (like DYKs and article updates) where the addition of an infobox is necessary and I feel uncontroversial. I also feel that an infobox is, in certain cases, a necessary addition to an article. My personal opinion is that a restriction put on one our more established and well-respected editors is silly and prevents her from editing and updating articles.

So, I ask that I be allowed to add infoboxes for Gerda. This way, articles are updated and expanded, Gerda wouldn't get in trouble and any issues/problems would fall onto me. I don't think this is an unfair request as it would help only the community and help create and expand articles, which is why we are all here (though I think some of us forget that sometimes).

I completely expect that this request will be shot down, but I live by the "it couldn't hurt to ask" philosophy. If ArbCom rules against this request, I will not fight it and will, albeit reluctantly, go with it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:05, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Recuse from this and all future requests involving this case. --Rschen7754 04:17, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

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Clarification request: Ayn Rand

Initiated by v/r - TP at 18:18, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Ayn Rand arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Link to relevant decision

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• TParis (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (initiator)
• Jreferee (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Statement by TParis

I am filing a case about an administrator editing through protection on an article with Arbcom sanctions without consensus.

Timeline:

• 17:50 8 October 2013 I JethroBT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) closes an RFC determining not to use qualifiers in front of the word "philosopher" in the lead.
• 18:04 8 October 2013 Yworo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Makes an edit request to make the change in the article per the RFC consensus
• 18:27 8 October 2013 I fulfill the edit request to enact the consensus of the RFC
• 19:08 Mark Arsten (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) removed the full protection per the closed RFC and enacted result

At this point, two edit wars break one.

• Whether or not to call Ayn Rand Russian-American or just American: [3][4][5][6][7][8]

• Whether or not to say Ayn Rand founded Objectivism or if it's implied: [9][10][11][12]

• 00:51 11 October 2013 I fully-protected the article due to edit warring
• 01:02 11 October 2013 I placed the article under a 1 revert rule and created an edit notice
• 12:39 11 October 2013 Jreferee (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) makes an edit that again changes that section, this time specifying Russian-born American, and claiming to be carrying out the consensus of the RFC. However, the RFC was not about Russian American or American. It was about qualifiers before 'philosopher'.
• 14:06 11 October 2013 I bring it to Jreferee's attention that this was an Arbitration action, and this article is under discretionary sanctions and urge him to self revert. I also suggest that he may not of known he was contributing to the edit war.
• 16:07 11 October 2013 Jreferee declines to self revert asking to discuss it on the talk page instead.

As you can see on the talk page, Jreferee is again being asked to self revert. Unfortunately, Jreferee has continued the edit war, used admin tools to edit through full protection, and will not revert despite being warned about discretionary sanctions. According to this motion, upon being warned that this protection was due to Arbcom sanctions, Jreferee should've reverted himself.

--v/r - TP 18:18, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

@NE Ent: Using admin tools to violate discretionary sanctions is an issue for Arbcom, not AE Admins. AE Admins do not posses the full range of options to vet this issue.--v/r - TP 21:12, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Query from NE Ent

Why here instead of WP:AE?

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• The reason it's here instead of AE is that AE cannot remove an administrator's bit. Editing through protection is an extremely serious matter; it confounds the community's ability to formulate consensus when any administrator can impose their personal viewpoint into an article. The edit summary in particular concerns me ("Lead to this article from an AN request. Tweaked lead, revised redundant information, and focused more on important aspects highlighted by article section headings"), as it is clearly taking a position on the content of the matter, rather than the result of the RFC, which is what the report at WP:AN referred to. Jreferee, please revert yourself. Risker (talk) 05:54, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

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Clarification request: Race and intelligence

Initiated by Cla68 (talk) at 23:02, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Case or decision affected

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and intelligence

Mathsci interaction ban

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Cla68 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Mathsci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) notified

Statement by Cla68

On 17 September 2013, Mathsci was given an interaction ban between him and I. Soon after, Mathsci announced he was taking a break. The day he returned, he posted an image on his userpage and linked to two Wikipedia articles in the caption he placed with the image. The first wikilink is the name of my organization of employment. The second wikilink is to an article on the small community in which I reside. After it had been there for two days, someone brought it to my attention and I filed an ArbCom enforcement request.

It appears that during his Wikibreak, Mathsci investigated and found my organization of employment and place of residence, which he then posted on his userpage hoping that I would discover it. The person in the photo is not me, but does bear a resemblance to me. Although my real name is easily discoverable on the Internet, my employment and exact residence are not, as far as I am aware. Thus, I believe it would take some dedicated effort and time to find this information. I have offered to provide documentation to ArbCom showing that I do work for that small organization and reside at that location.

Note- Mathsci has previously been warned about digging for and posting private information about other editors. Cla68 (talk) 05:08, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Mathsci

Anticipating this request yesterday, which concerns a now oversighted diff of a captioned thumbnail image on the fourth version of my userpage, I sent a preliminary communication to Roger Davies. Amongst other things it disclosed details of two short google searches, each on two terms. It was accompanied by copies of two emails to arbitrators. I requested that, if he thought it appropriate, he might forward these to arbcom-l, which he kindly did. I will post a detailed response to Cla68's statement here on or before Thursday October 10th. Sorry about the delay and thanks in advance for your patience. Mathsci (talk) 03:42, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Johnuniq

While superficially straightforward, this case raises some nasty tangles. I have no interest in what was on Mathsci's user page, and am happy for Arbcom to rule on whether it was (probably) an attack. However, if that ruling is made, I ask that Arbcom address whether off-Wikiedia provocation has occurred, and, if so, whether its extent should be regarded as a mitigating circumstance.

According to statements made by Demiurge1000 at AE (permalink), it is very likely that Cla68 has been participating in off-Wikipedia harassment of Mathsci for an extended period. Unfortunately, as well being one of Wikipedia's highly talented editors, Mathsci is also highly trollable. Those who have been attacking Mathsci literally for years at the bad site know his weakness—indeed, it is because he keeps responding that they maintain their interest.

I support the principle that Wikipedians should generally ignore off-site behavior, so X saying something bad about Y off-site does not excuse Y responding badly on Wikipedia. However, it would be particularly unhelpful for this case to reward the prolonged attacks at the bad site when they finally provoke a bad response. If Arbcom rules that an attack has occured, rather than a project ban, a final final warning should be issued—much like the undertaking that I think was eventually wrung from Cla68 regarding outing a certain editor unrelated to this case. Johnuniq (talk) 03:38, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by SirFozzie

I understand that this involves non-public identifying information, but at the Enforcement request, I saw a statement that the edits were suppressed, as potentially outing. I think the Committee settled the interpretation of WP:OUTING in the TimidGuy Ban Appeal, where the intent was more judged rather then the accuracy of the outing information. Even if Mathsci has gotten the information wrong, the fact that he posted this information in an attempt to intimidate another editor, no matter what conflicts they've had before, requires a most strenuous response. SirFozzie (talk) 02:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by RegentsPark

Though the irony in this request is mind boggling, mathsci's actions are disappointing. The posted information is not really outing - since no independent user could have specifically connected it to cla68 - but it certainly does look like harassment with its "I know where you are" message. That is definitely inappropriate and I can see that it is going to be hard to get over that. But, it is also important to recognize that Mathsci is a valuable editor on Wikipedia who, to some extent, is responsible for the fact that our R&I articles are reasonably balanced and neutral. Doing a great balancing job in a contentious area that is rife with SPAs and POV pushers comes with a load of stress, all of which has been obvious and very visible in the case of Mathsci and now this stress is manifesting itself in a bad way. Along the lines of Johnuniq above, I hope mathsci can present arbs with a reasonable explanation for what caused him to use such an obvious form of harassment and I hope arbs can work their way through this mess in a way that doesn't lose us one of our more committed editors. There are, in this world, trees and there are forests - we should try not to lose sight of the latter.--regentspark (comment) 13:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

Like RegentsPark, I find Mathsci's actions very disappointing, and note that they require some strong sanction being placed on him, however, I do not believe that an indef ban would be, overall, beneficial to the project of building an unbiased encyclopedia. I urge the committee to find another sanction, as harsh as deemed necessary, which will allow us to retain Mathsci's considerable contributions. I believe that a significant mitigating factor here is the extended campaign of harassment that has been conducted against Mathsci for years by multiple editors, some now banned and some still editing, which included on several occasions disclosing Mathsci's own place of residence. That Mathsci has not been able to follow the advice of others to ignore the attacks against him is regrettable, but understandable: such advice is much easier to give then it is to follow, as any editor who has ever been harassed or attacked by another can attest to. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:04, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Count Iblis

I agree with Beyond My Ken about imposing an indefinite ban being problematic here. I would suggest doing now what was done with Cla68 after he was indefinitely banned. In that case there were discussions between him and ArbCom to make sure that after being unblocked, Cla68 would stick to certain rules to make sure we would not see the same problems again. Similar discussions can be conducted with Mathsci right now. Count Iblis (talk) 01:22, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Awaiting statement by Mathsci, but at the moment my view is as follows: this seems to be plain harassment of another long-term contributor, for which I am minded to consider an appropriate sanction on Mathsci – up to and including a project ban. Veiled harassment of this nature is utterly unacceptable. AGK [•] 23:33, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
• Both Cla68 and Mathsci have submitted e-mails on this matter, but am awaiting an on-wiki statement from Mathsci (and responses to various e-mails from both editors) before proceeding further with this. Statements from other editors are not likely to help; if made they should be kept brief. Carcharoth (talk) 23:38, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
• Confirming that AGK and Carcharoth have correctly described the situation, which the Committee is reviewing. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:39, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
• Concurring with the comments of my colleagues. Also noting that the Arbitration Committee has at this time declined Cla68's offer to share his personal non-public data. As both editors have submitted email statements and/or comments, and the matter does involve personal non-public information, I am hesitant to have a lot of public discussion on the exact nature of the content involved; non-party comment should limit itself to principles rather than the material that has been identified. Risker (talk) 23:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
• As far as I'm concerned, Mathsci's behaviour was reprehensible, and his side of the story has done nothing to convince me otherwise. I'm still awaiting further responses to emails before I make a final decision, but concur with my colleagues that statements from other parties should be kept brief and regarding the principles rather than the material. Worm^TT(talk) 07:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
• Well, to be entirely honest, Sir Fozzie, this is not a clear case of outing; Mathsci, basically, put a pic on his userpage linking to an organisation and to a small community. As it turns out, Cla lives in that community and works for that organisation, although Mathsci never linked those elements to him (basically, Cla was outed by his own public reaction – which was something I wanted to avoid and so I suppressed the diff on Mathsci's userpage containing the image and the caption). So, as I said, this is not really a case of outing, but rather of harassment ("I know where you live and who you work for") and no amount of off-wiki harassment should ever justify such an action. Wikipedia is not a place to settle scores. That said, I'm still waiting for Mathsci's reply before deciding what to do. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 09:52, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
• A non-involved admin could have blocked Mathsci for this incident, and would have been supported. However, given the circumstances and Mathsci's history, it is appropriate it has come to ArbCom to deal with. I think by now it is clear that if any user sleuths personal information on another user, and then uses that information in a private vendetta to harass, silence or intimidate the other user, they will be removed from the Wikipedia community, and will need to convince either the community or ArbCom that they can be trusted before being allowed back in. That the user doing the harassment is already under formal trust not to mention the other user on Wikipedia, let alone post something that indicates: I know where you live, and I know who your employers are, then we are dealing with a serious issue. The Committee are looking into the reason why Mathsci did what he did (was he provoked by Cla68 for example); however, I do believe Mathsci has been given guidance in the past not to respond to provocation, and especially not to take matters into his own hands. I don't see that ArbCom have any room for manoeuvre here; this is an indef ban. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 13:10, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

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