Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see WP:DNR.

Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN. Do you need assistance? Would you like to help? Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page. Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the DRN talk page to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute. Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the volunteer guide for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 hours with no other edits. Open/close quick reference To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}} To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).

Case		Created		Last volunteer edit		Last modified
Title	Status	User	Time	User	Time	User	Time
Nivkh alphabets	In Progress	Modun (t)	10 days, 1 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	6 hours	Kwamikagami (t)	6 hours
Desi	Closed	Factfinderrr (t)	4 days, 2 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	2 days, 17 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	2 days, 17 hours
Lydham Hall	New	Olga Sydney (t)	3 days, 8 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	17 hours	Mitch Ames (t)	14 hours
Wudu	New	Nasserb786 (t)	1 days, 11 hours	None	n/a	Nasserb786 (t)	1 days, 8 hours
Benevolent dictatorship	New	Banedon (t)	19 hours	None	n/a	Banedon (t)	19 hours

If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 17:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Current disputes

Talk:ZX Spectrum_graphic_modes#Summary_of_the_discussion_so_far

– New discussion.

Filed by Z80Spectrum on 19:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:ZX Spectrum graphic modes#Summary of the discussion so far (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Z80Spectrum (talk · contribs)
• Chaheel Riens (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Everything happened on the talk page of the article "ZX Spectrum graphic modes". Multiple parts of the talk page were removed by Chaheel Riens, in a single edit, abruptly and without any prior consultations with anyone. Those parts were present on the talk page for two months, and were agreed as OK by another long-time editor of the page (4throck), perhaps not in entirety, but he gave positive opinion at least for some parts. Most of the removed parts were written by the user Z80Spectrum. Note: he registered today, previously he used IP addresses 80.80.52.*. An important part of the removed content is a computation of the ZX Spectrum palette into sRGB color-space. Note that the ARTICLE still contains some data which is the result of the said computation; such is since 2 months ago. Chaheel Riens claims that multiple policies were broken, including WP:FORUM, WP:OR, WP:NOTHOWTO. Z80Spectrum claims that Chaheel Riens is misinterpreting the policies, and provides counter arguments. User Remsense then joins into the discussion (by himself, previously not involved). He discusses with Z80Spectrum. Z80Spectrum argues that WP:OR does not apply due to triviality (WP:CALC), and that he is just improving accuracy, since previous data was equally WP:OR, but less accurate. Noone is disputing the accuracy of new computation. User 4throck is the author of the old computation, and he agreed two months ago that the new computation is more accurate. Chaheel Riens thinks he doesn't need to post any additional counter arguments to Z80Spectrum's arguments. Z80Spectrum claims that such conduct constitutes a fallacy of "proof by assertion". The discussion is quite long, but the central and most important part is in the first 11 posts after the "Summary of the discussion so far".

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ZX_Spectrum_graphic_modes#Summary_of_the_discussion_so_far https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ZX_Spectrum_graphic_modes#Someone_has_just_deleted_all_of_my_suggestions

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I think that an opinion about alleged violations of WP:FORUM, WP:OR, WP:NOTHOWTO could persuade involved parties. It should include opinion whether those policies were violated. Perhaps a few short instructions what should be done with the removed content, one of: - revert entirely - revert some parts or a summary needs to be written - the removed parts should stay removed

Summary of dispute by Chaheel Riens

User is new to Wikipedia, and doesn't yet appreciate or understand the admittedly many different policies and processes that are in place - both official and informal, but doesn't seem willing to learn before jumping in - WP:BOLD notwithstanding.

Additions to the talk page fell foul of WP:FORUM, WP:NOTHOWTO, WP:OR, WP:OWN, and I removed them. Another editor (Remsense) has also expressed concern over the user's edits, both content and tone, but asked not to be involved in DRN so isn't listed here.

User is extremely verbose, and often meets WP:TLDR, making it difficult to follow and reply, and as it's been established that English isn't their first language, several statements have been antagonistic and rude in tone - not directly related to the issue at hand, but it does make communication strained.

This is not just a DR about the article, but is rooted in the editors actual behaviour. I've left templates on talk pages, added comments and advice, but the user is making changes without understanding why things are done the way they are done, and expects all to agree to their terms.

I removed detail from the Talk:ZX Spectrum graphic modes page here as I believe it breaches WP:FORUM, WP:NOTHOWTO and WP:OR. User Z80Spectrum - the author of the comments - thinks differently. Discussion has made no real progress.

Talk:ZX Spectrum_graphic_modes#Summary_of_the_discussion_so_far discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Thank you, moderator. Unfortunately, I'm confused by the UI, so I don't know what to do next. Is there something I should do, or do I just need to wait a bit more? Also, to make this quicker, I think that I do not want DRN Rule A (but I'm not sure). The reason: I would like to avoid locking the disputed article, because my estimate is that there is no edit war. I just want to hear an opinion of an experienced party. - Z80Spectrum - Z80Spectrum (talk) 21:43, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Zeroth statement by possible moderator (ZX Spectrum)

I have two questions for the editors. The first question is whether you are requesting moderated discussion in accordance with DRN Rule A. Moderated discussion is voluntary. Moderated discussion at DRN will only be about article content. User conduct will not be discussed. Often the resolution or orderly discussion of article content issues can permit user conduct issues to subside. If an editor really wants to discuss user conduct, they should first read the boomerang essay and then report the conduct issue at WP:ANI, but then this case will be closed, because we do not discuss issues involving the same article in two forums at once. An editor who does want moderated discussion of content should answer the second question. The purpose of moderated discussion is to improve the article. So please state concisely what sections or paragraphs of the article you want to change (or what you want left the same that another editor wants to change). Robert McClenon (talk) 21:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Zeroth statements by editors (ZX Spectrum)

Thank you moderator. I would prefer WP:DRN Rule B. If there are some good reasons not to use DRN Rule B, then I will consent to WP:DRN Rule A.

My opinion is that this is a dispute about article content, because the allegations of policy violations on the talk page directly affect the part of the article about colors, specifically the preferred simulated colors and values in the color-table [1], and also affect allowed or preferred methods to generate most images in the article, i.e. most images in the article are also in dispute. Z80Spectrum (talk) 07:49, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I would prefer the color-table and the related colors to stay the same as they currently are. I would prefer that the first image in the article stays as it currently is (more precisely, the methods of creation of that image should stay the same, while the content of the image is irrelevant). I would prefer that other images in the article are eventually modified (to use my preferred methods of creation), although this is neither necessary nor urgent. Z80Spectrum (talk) 08:01, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Besides this, I would like a definitive opinion of an expert whether WP:FORUM, WP:OR, WP:NOTHOWTO were violated, and whether the related discussion should stay on the talk page or should it be removed, so that this same argument does not need to be repeated over and over again. Z80Spectrum (talk) 08:07, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I removed detail from the Talk:ZX Spectrum graphic modes page here as I believe it breaches WP:FORUM, WP:NOTHOWTO and WP:OR. User Z80Spectrum - the author of the comments - thinks differently. Discussion has made no real progress. This is a content dispute brought on by differing interpretations of policies named. Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:34, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

First statement by possible moderator (ZX Spectrum)

One editor has asked if we can use DRN Rule B rather than DRN Rule A. Rule B allows back-and-forth discussion. Since discussion does not appear to have become repetitive, I am willing to agree to DRN Rule B. However, they say that they want Rule B to avoid locking the article. Please read DRN Rule B again. See rule B.4. Rule B permits back-and-forth discussion, but I do not currently have a rule that leaves the article unlocked. Cases at DRN almost always involve an article that at least one editor wants to change. If a dispute does not involve changing an article, maybe it should be somewhere other than DRN. Robert McClenon (talk) 08:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

One editor writes:

I would like a definitive opinion of an expert whether WP:FORUM, WP:OR, WP:NOTHOWTO were violated, and whether the related discussion should stay on the talk page or should it be removed, so that this same argument does not need to be repeated over and over again.

Well, DRN is not a place to ask for a "definitive opinion of an expert", and I don't think that happens in Wikipedia, but the real question appears to be that User:Chaheel Riens removed 26 Kilobytes of material from the talk page that was inserted by an unregistered editor who was probably User:Z80Spectrum. I have read the Talk Page Guidelines and advise the other editors to read them. Maybe Chaheel Riens interprets the Talk Page Guidelines differently than I do. They are not clearly written. However, it is my opinion that the removal of material posted by another editor to an article talk page is only allowed under unusual circumstances, and those circumstances were not present. So the removal of the large amount of talk page material was an error. However, talk page conduct is a conduct issue, and DRN is not a conduct forum. I have no authority to reinsert the removed material.

It is not clear whether Chaheel Riens is willing to discuss article content. It is also not clear whether Z80Spectrum wants to discuss article content. If both editors want to discuss article content, they should state what changes they want to make to the article. If they do not both agree to DRN Rule B, I will close this case. Robert McClenon (talk) 08:28, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:Politics of Armenia

– New discussion.

Filed by UA0Volodymyr on 21:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Template:Politics of Armenia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• UA0Volodymyr (talk · contribs)
• Archives908 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

I proposed to remove the ugly and useless section on international organizations from the template.

Basically, this section duplicates the Foreign relations section. Article on Armenian CoE membership, as well as articles of international relationship with others organizations, is already in that section, and CIS is also more optimal to be moved to this section, like it's done in the Template:Politics of Ukraine.

The user rejects my changes and refers to the lack of consensus and policies forbidding having this section. I think these are not enough reasons for having this useless and senseless section.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Template talk:Politics of Armenia#International organizations

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Assess the feasibility of this section and my proposals, find an optimal variation of listing the international organizations in the template.

Summary of dispute by Archives908

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Not sure exactly why a dispute was opened, as there is an ongoing discussion on the template talk page. Last message I sent today was to seek clarification from the user regarding what exactly they are proposing to improve the template as it has not been very clear thus far. Admins, please note that UA0Volodymyr was recently unblocked from an indef ban due to disruptive behavior and an unwillingness to co-operate with others (see: AE discussion). Ymblanter reported the user for disruptive editing and UA0Volodymyr was subsequently blocked by HJ Mitchell. There was also an ANI for edit warring (see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1140#Edit warring - UA0Volodymyr). The ban was lifted on 10 January 2024 by Red-tailed hawk, with conditions (topic ban and one-revert restriction). The user has already reinstated their preferred version of the template after being reverted and prior to establishing consensus (see: [2]). Regards, Archives908 (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:Politics of Armenia discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Zeroth statement by possible moderator (Armenia)

I have two questions for the editors. The first question is whether you are requesting moderated discussion in accordance with DRN Rule D. Moderated discussion is voluntary. Moderated discussion at DRN will only be about article content. User conduct will not be discussed. Often the resolution or orderly discussion of article content issues can permit user conduct issues to subside. If an editor really wants to discuss user conduct, they should first read the boomerang essay and then report the conduct issue at WP:ANI, but then this case will be closed, because we do not discuss issues involving the same article in two forums at once. If you want moderated discussion, please also read the Armenia-Azerbaijan finding.

An editor who does want moderated discussion of content should answer the second question. The purpose of moderated discussion is to improve the template. So please state concisely what part of the template you want to change (or what you want left the same that another editor wants to change). Robert McClenon (talk) 18:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Zeroth statements by editors (Armenia)

Thank you for your feedback, Robert McClenon, it is much appreciated. I have been trying since October 2023 to understand exactly what UA0Volodymyr is seeking to achieve in the template. They insist that they have "improvements to make", yet it is challenging to know what exactly they seek to accomplish as they have not provided a clear X to Y proposal. Out of GF, I'm still open to understand their end-goals with the template, as is evident from my last message in the template talk page discussion. However, the editing tactics of UA0Volodymyr raise concern. I know this discussion is supposed to focus strictly on content; but, I am now debating opening an ANI. UA0Volodymyr is under a strict one-revert restriction, yet they have already restored content which has been reverted (see: [3]) just one day after their indef ban was lifted. I am not sure how best to proceed at this point, in the interim, perhaps UA0Volodymyr can present their proposal for the template in a clear X to Y format? Regards, Archives908 (talk) 19:00, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I decline my proposals. Do with this template whatever you want. I don't want to participate in these discusses anymore. Thanks. --UA0Volodymyr (talk) 00:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

General Collective Intelligence

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by CognitiveMMA on 05:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute General Collective Intelligence (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (now Draft:General Collective Intelligence (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)) Users involved CognitiveMMA (talk · contribs) MrOllie (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I am bringing this issue to dispute resolution because I believe there has been a misunderstanding regarding my contributions to the Wikipedia article on "General Collective Intelligence." My main argument is that as an expert in this field, my inclusion of peer-reviewed research is essential for the article's accuracy and completeness. I am not motivated by self-promotion but by a desire to share important ideas about nature's collective intelligence, which I believe can significantly contribute to global challenges such as poverty and climate change. I contend that my actions do not constitute a conflict of interest. Wikipedia's guidelines allow for the citation of one's work when it is relevant and peer-reviewed, which is the case here. Additionally, my article was moved to draft without clear guidance for improvement, which I find unhelpful and counterproductive. I am seeking a fair and informed review process through this dispute resolution. I believe that Wikipedia is a platform for spreading ideas, especially those supported by academic research, and including such content does not violate Wikipedia's policy against original research. My intention is to engage in a constructive dialogue to resolve this matter in accordance with Wikipedia's standards and practices. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? User talk:CognitiveMMA#October 2021 How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? To resolve this dispute, an impartial review of my contributions by a panel of experienced Wikipedia editors would be helpful. If possible, this panel might include experts in the field of collective intelligence, to ensure that the content is evaluated both for adherence to Wikipedia's guidelines and for its academic validity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CognitiveMMA (talk • contribs) 05:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC) Summary of dispute by MrOllie Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. General Collective Intelligence discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.  Note:The filing editor does not appear to have notified MrOllie on their user talkpage. This dispute appears to be about wether the filer has a conflict of interest, and about wether what is currently at Draft:General Collective Intelligence is siutable for mainspace. Questions about wether a specific editor has a conflict of interest can be adressed at the conflict of interest noticeboard. Looking through the archives, disputes about wether a (declined / pushed back from mainspace) draft is siutable for mainspace don't appear to be a good fit for this noticeboard. Assuming the answer to the conflict of interest question is "no conflict of interest" the main way to object a unliteral draftification would be to move it back, but submitting it to AfC is also possible. If the answer to the conflict of interest question is that there is a conflict of interest, objecting to the draftification means to submit the Draft to AfC. If the draft is submitted to AfC and declined (which a since G13'd version of this draft appears to have been) or rejected, that can be discussed at the Teahouse or the AfC help desk. Victor Schmidt (talk) 08:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC) wordling, linked G13 at Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:48, 13 January 2024 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Playboi Carti

– New discussion.

Filed by EphemeralPerpetuals on 18:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Playboi Carti (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• EphemeralPerpetuals (talk · contribs)
• Moem-Meom (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Rapper Playboi Carti's birth date has been brought into question following the release of his track H00dByAir and the release of footage of an arrest in 2022. Consensus has not been reached, and editing has gone back and forth between the dates 1995 and 1996 for weeks without solid conversation. The majority of reliable sources state his birth date as 1996, but more questionable ones - such as footage of his arrest and a leaked driver's license state it is 1995.

Note: It's difficult to specifically note more than one person as the majority of edits have been done by anonymous accounts - the dispute is not one that can be easily pinned down.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Talk:Playboi_Carti#Consensus_on_Carti's_birth_year Talk:Playboi_Carti#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_10_January_2024_(2) User_talk:RXLFZ#Playboi_Carti_birth_year_dispute

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I'd like an outside opinion to review the dispute and provide perspective - ideally so that a consensus can be met. I'm still a relatively new user, and I'm unsure exactly how to proceed, so if this isn't the right location to request help with this matter then please redirect me.

Summary of dispute by Moem-Meom

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Playboi Carti discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer Note - The Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard is probably the right forum for this issue. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:34, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - I'll take it over there. EphemeralPerpetuals (they/them)^talk 00:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)