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The Bonehunters by Steven Erikson
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really liked it

"And so we weep for the fallen. We weep for those yet to fall.
And in war the screams are loud and harsh and in peace the wail is so drawn-out we tell ourselves we hear nothing."


Can a sixth book in the series have a 'second book syndrome'?
Syndrome where book serves as a bridge we need to cross in order for the story, plot and characters to move forward? A bridge from introduction in the first book towards final conclusion?

Considering how three out of five books so far were a constant introduction of new characters and new settings, where story and world were developing - outward and inward - when I look back from where we came from, pause and try to figure out where are we heading, it seems to me that this book have everything we need in order to say it suffers from that second book syndrome.
Especially when I think about second half of this book.

Now, I’m not one of those naysayers of this issue, it’s actually not an issue for me, at all.
I understand why authors need this bridge, especially if series are far shorter, like in trilogies.
Introductions so far, for Erikson, were almost stellar. He has this ability to suck you in, in the world, in the setting, with the characters and their stories, no matter how new and strange and different from previous books they were.
And with those introductions stories in them moved forward and we went fluently with them.
Who would say that almost three years have passed since the beginning of the story in Gardens of the Moon?
And yet, in book before this one we had an introduction. In book before that one we had an introduction as well.

And this is the book that finally gathers around parts of all those worlds in previous five books and they finally get to introduce themselves to each other. We finally see convergence of different worlds.
But, it’s too early for conclusions. In words of Achilles: "It's too early in the day for killing princes."
Sort of speak.
So, in my opinion, second half of this book has this syndrome. It (necessarily) prolongs and it’s far too long.
And, unfortunately, some of the characters suffer because of it.
(Quick Ben, where art thou?)

Story.

I would divide this book in two parts.
First is pre-siege of Y’Ghatan and second… well, the consequences of it.

14th Malazan Army is on Seven City continent, with Adjunct Tavore Paran, Fid, Kalam, Quick Ben, Gelser, Stormy, Truth, Bottle - and with the rest of the amazing Bonehunters - across the Raraku Desert they pursue what remained of Shaik rebels; hurrying to finally suffocate the rebellion, while, at the same time, desperately trying to outrun ‘Mistress of Pestilence’ and goddess of plague – Poliel.
Which leads them to the siege of Y’Ghatan, an unprepared night attack, and fiery inferno that will follow.
This siege is 150 pages long single chapter. It’s a beautifully structured novella inside of this novel.
It’s emotionally exhausting and gut-wrenching, but it delivers on so many levels. You will have so many new characters to root for.

Also, characters that have an appearance are former Captain Ganoes Paran, who is back from his retirement and has a few pairings, one of which is with Apsalar. Which was quite interesting given their history and I have to admit, I actually like this pairing. A lot.
Apsalar is in company of two ghosts, Telorast and Curdle, that animate two reptile skeletons, and in their back and forth banter, they serve as a comedic relief.

Crocus, Heboric, Scillara and Young Felisin, on the other hand are a quite miserable gathering and company. Which doesn’t surprise me, since anyone that accompanies Heboric must be a miserable fellow.

Second part of the book, of course, deals with the aftermath of the siege of Y’Ghatan.
And here is that problem I was talking about. We see far too many chapters (and considering how Erikson’s chapter is 50 pages long per average, that’s a quite amount of pages) where characters are aimlessly roaming around the desert or the sea.
And I understand, the reason for that is to give other characters time to catch up or finish their stories in this book, and give opportunity for all of us to enter that final crescendo, together, with a bang.
Which we undoubtedly do.
This is not me complaining, I really don’t mind this, but it is a fair warning that story will stretch out a bit.

Characters.

Karsa Orlong V Samar Dev

Challenger. That is what Karsa needs in order to be an interesting character.
A challenger. Not of his vast prowess, Gods know that any skirmish Karsa enters, by the end of it, he is the sole survivor of it.
And that’s dull and boring and there’s really no emotional investment, not just in the character but in the story itself, when you already know an outcome of it.

Is it really the entirety of the emotional span we can have about him in the fact that we are easily amazed how strongly, quickly and viciously he deals with his enemies?
Yes, indoor battle with K’Chain Nahruk is great, forest skirmish with the entire Tiste Edur tribe is awesome, but at some point, whenever a new challenger crosses his path with Karsa, we already know that he is an expendable cannon fodder.

And this is why I think that Karsa hurts the series; that giving him, and characters such as Anomander Rake, these unproportionately powerful beings, a POV is a bad thing.

By giving a character more powers and making him all-powerful, you’re actually restricting that character. You’re confining him into a single sandbox and only certain characters can play with him.
Either you have to invent an even more powerful character to challenge him or you have to strip away your character of those powers you already attributed to him in order for him to play with others.

So yes, in my opinion, Karsa needed a challenger of his wits, of his philosophy of living, of viewing the world around him, and by fighting those types of battles, show us that he is more than one-dimensional character.
I think that Erikson himself recognized this, because he introduced to us Samar Dev, an inventor and a witch.

And Samar Dev is perfect for him. She is smarter than most people in Malazan world, she is independent, a scholar and explorer. She is almost completely opposite from everything he represents.
She is also a witch that wields magic, ancient magic of this world, and she sees spirits and ghosts.
And one thing that we know about Karsa is that he carries all of his ghosts, all the spirits of people he had killed – and he was busy in that work – chained around him.

So, who better to understand this mess that Karsa Orlong of a character is, to whom better to give to, us readers, an access into a POV – than a person who spent her life exploring, inventing and dealing with things that Karsa is troubled? And when she finds the answer, we will find one, too.

“’Sorcery, Karsa Orlong, that is the heart of the problem.’
‘What problem now, woman?’
‘Magic obviates the need for invention, beyond certain basic requirements. And so we remain eternally stifled-’
‘To the Faces with stifled, witch. There is nothing wrong with where we are now, how we are. You spit on satisfaction, leaving you always unsettled and miserable.
I am a Teblor – we live simply enough, and we see the cruelty of your so called progress. Slaves, children in chains, a thousand lies to make one person better than the next, a thousand lies telling you this is how things should be.
Madness called sanity, slavery called freedom. I’m done talking now.’
‘Well, I’m not. You’re no different, calling ignorance wisdom, savagery noble. Without striving to make things better, we’re doomed to repeat our litany of injustice.’
‘Better is never what you think it is, Samar Dev.’”


What I found interesting from their relationship is that, even though Karsa is a savage brute that spend most of his life secluded and is yet to learn of the world, while Samar Dev in contrast is a sophisticated explorer that traveled around half of that world – one can learn from the other.
No matter how plain the language Karsa uses, how simplified his views on certain matters can be – those words and those truths have much to teach a scholar that recognized there’s a potential for learning.
There’s no ego in Samar Dev because of her knowledge, no need for pretentiousness when debating with Karsa to showoff that knowledge, while on the other hand, her approach to him isn’t one of scientist’s to a sample that needs dissecting.
But nonetheless, she is there to understand Karsa. In his core.

First half of this book is amazing because of their relationship. The second half, unfortunately, we lose that Samar Dev I have described here, and instead of her we get another Karsa’s follower.
And that’s a shame.

In conclusion:

I believe that first half of this series is a cynical representation of the Malazan world. Of everything that is wrong in it. Everything that is poisoned and infected by malice of the Crippled God and his pain.
The series had some recurring themes: misery, chains, honour, indebtedness, anti-war and just cause.
In this book main theme, however, was relationship between Gods and their followers.
Misinterpretation of how to worship and Gods misapprehension of their worshipers.
That, as worshipers can denounce their Gods, so do Gods can denounce their worshipers, if one side goes too far.

“Wouldn’t surprise me if all the Gods are just aspects of one God, and all this fighting is just proof that one God is insane. Or maybe just confused.
The gentler and kinder the God, the more harsher and cruel its worshipers, for they hold to their conviction with taut certainty, febrile in its extremity, and so cannot abide dissenters.
They will kill, they will torture, in that God’s name. And see in themselves no conflict, no matter how bloodstained their hands.
Who wouldn’t be driven mad by all that?”


And in this theme we finally see change and distancing from cynicism.
After we see the peak of that cynicism, funnily enough, beneath the fiery flames of the city of Y’Ghatan, we start to descend from that peak and start the journey to long way down.
From those ashes something new will arise, something we haven’t seen in this series so far.
Hope.

description

3.58/5

Kharkanas Trilogy
Forge of Darkness
Fall of Light

Path to Ascendancy series
Dancer's Lament
Deadhouse Landing

Malazan Empire series
Night Of Knives

Malazan Book of the Fallen series
Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
Midnight Tides
House of Chains

Ultimate Malazan Chronological Reading Order
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Quotes Stefan Liked

Steven Erikson
“There is something profoundly cynical, my friends, in the notion of paradise after death. The lure is evasion. The promise is excusative. One need not accept responsibility for the world as it is, and by extension, one need do nothing about it. To strive for change, for true goodness in this mortal world, one must acknowledge and accept, within one's own soul, that this mortal reality has purpose in itself, that its greatest value is not for us, but for our children and their children. To view life as but a quick passage alone a foul, tortured path – made foul and tortured by our own indifference – is to excuse all manner of misery and depravity, and to exact cruel punishment upon the innocent lives to come.

I defy this notion of paradise beyond the gates of bone. If the soul truly survives the passage, then it behooves us – each of us, my friends – to nurture a faith in similitude: what awaits us is a reflection of what we leave behind, and in the squandering of our mortal existence, we surrender the opportunity to learn the ways of goodness, the practice of sympathy, empathy, compassion and healing – all passed by in our rush to arrive at a place of glory and beauty, a place we did not earn, and most certainly do not deserve.”
Steven Erikson, The Bonehunters

Steven Erikson
“Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering.
Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them.
Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.”
Steven Erikson, The Bonehunters


Reading Progress

January 20, 2018 – Started Reading
January 20, 2018 – Shelved
January 22, 2018 –
10.0% "'Silence!'
'My lord? I said nothing. Silence. Is he making an observation? Yes, that must be it.
Look back now and say aloud: Indeed, my lord. Silence.
There. How does he react? Is that growing apoplexy?'
'Iskaral Pust!'
'Yes, my lord?'
'I have decided.'
'Yes, my lord? Well, if he's decided something why doesn't he just say it?'
'I have decided...'
'He's doing some more! This god is insane. I serve an insane god!'"
January 27, 2018 –
20.0% "I like how Samar Dev is trying to explain how hydraulic pump works, and Karsa, savage that he is, is clearly not impressed.
(yes, there's a hydraulic pump in Malazan world)

Then, Karsa finds binoculars, and I kid you not, dialogue goes like this:

K: What's this for?
SD: That makes objects look closer.
K: Well, if I want something closer, I'll simply go to it.
...
Logical. But also infuriating."
January 28, 2018 –
50.0% "description

Siege of Y'Ghatan

150 pages 'Of Erikson' in a single chapter.

description"
January 28, 2018 –
55.0% "'You're not just an idiot. You're a fool. Immature. Petty, spiteful, condescending, defensive, aggressive, ignorant, contradictory.
And you're ugly as well.'
'And you need a haircut, Mogora, and I'm just the man to do it.'
'Come near me with with intentions other than amorous and I'll stick you.'
'Amorous? What a horrible thought-'
'What if I told you I was pregnant?'
'I'd kill the mule.'
She leapt at him.
"
February 1, 2018 –
80.0%
February 2, 2018 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 53 (53 new)


Samir Well done, sir! Another great and meticulous review. This book seems to be full of great moments and I can't wait to read it.


message 2: by StefanP (new)

StefanP Šta misliš o ovome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjIu6...
Čitav album je inspirisan Malazanom. :)


Stefan Samir wrote: "Well done, sir! Another great and meticulous review. This book seems to be full of great moments and I can't wait to read it."

Thank you, kind sir! There are great moments aplenty and I have no doubt you'll enjoy every second in it. :D


Stefan StefanP wrote: "Šta misliš o ovome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjIu6...
Čitav album je inspirisan Malazanom. :)"


Epic Atmospheric Black Metal? Prvi put čujem i za njih i za ovako nešto. Definitivno nije nešto što bih ja slušao, ali jeste interesantno, šta znam. :D


message 5: by StefanP (new)

StefanP Stefan wrote: "StefanP wrote: "Šta misliš o ovome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjIu6...
Čitav album je inspirisan Malazanom. :)"

Epic Atmospheric Black Metal? Prvi put čujem i za njih i za ovako nešto. Def..."


Probaj pomalo da slušaš, možda te uvuče u sebe. Kao i mene jer i meni je bilo poteško u početku da slušam ovako nešto. Ali sad jednostavno ne mogu da zamislim sebe da slušam nešto van toga, možda neku klasičnu muziku Yiruma i te stvari. Ali bez ovoga ne mogu. :)


Stefan Probao sam da slušam. Definitivno nije za mene. Muzika je u segmentima još i okej, ali čim krene onaj napadni tempo i onaj počne da vrišti - moj sluh negoduje. :D


message 7: by StefanP (new)

StefanP Stefan wrote: "Probao sam da slušam. Definitivno nije za mene. Muzika je u segmentima još i okej, ali čim krene onaj napadni tempo i onaj počne da vrišti - moj sluh negoduje. :D"

Znam sve :D


message 8: by Orient (new)

Orient Wonderful epic review, my awesome non-purple twin 😉 Ohh, how I wish to have read all the books of Malazan and know what you know!


Stefan Orient wrote: "Wonderful epic review, my awesome non-purple twin 😉 Ohh, how I wish to have read all the books of Malazan and know what you know!"

Thank you, dearest Orinta! :D *whispers*: although, I'm not quite sure that Goodreads likes it that much... :D Oh well. :D
Hmm, I'd look at it this way: You're already at the book 2, for the second time, and considering you had stopped at book 5 previous time, it means you're already 7 books in the series. Sort of. :D:D
Also, there are so many details you're catching on the second time that you weren't noticed at all in your first read, right? And that'll definitely better prepare you for this book, imo.
What I'm trying to say is - you're not that far off. :D


message 10: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Orient wrote: "Wonderful epic review, my awesome non-purple twin 😉 Ohh, how I wish to have read all the books of Malazan and know what you know!"

Thank you, dearest Orinta! :D *whispers*: although..."


GR doesn't like us in total, so don't get offended 😆Ahaha, I like your math skills, but you are right, I needed this reread. I understand more now!




Stefan My math skills are impeccable... :D:D Shut up. :D:D
That's what I'm saying, many things will be much easier to catch on later because of this reread.
Actually, there are so many obvious spoilers for the series itself that I don't know how I didn't caught them earlier. :D


message 12: by Orient (new)

Orient Lol, I know what you mean 😆



Yes, I read and beat myself as it is so obvious now, like for example Pust and servant! How's the non-Eriksonish writing on Malazan to you?


message 13: by Stefan (last edited Feb 04, 2018 03:42AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Stefan Buahahaha, true!
I still don't understand why were people surprised when they heard who Shadowthrone and Cotillion were. I mean, to me it was obvious even on my first read. And my first read was convoluted shit of Serbian translation! :D I guess it's just all about paying more attention. But Erikson overwhelms you with so many things that you lose it from time to time, gasping for breath. :D
It's not my first rodeo with Ian, I have read his prequel series Path to Ascendancy (which is really great series) so I'm used to him lacking most of Erikson's traits. But, it's passable. Luckily, characters are interesting, so I'm compensating in that regard. :D


message 14: by Orient (new)

Orient Oh oh, Mr. Fancy pants, not all are so clever like you! 😝



True, the load of characters and event is thrown on you and thanks god for rereads!

Hmm, doesn't sound intriguing, but I guess you are right, it's nice to meet characters from the series in new adventures or know more about the episodes which were only mentioned in main series.


Stefan Orient wrote: "Oh oh, Mr. Fancy pants, not all are so clever like you! 😝



True, the load of characters and event is thrown on you and thanks god for rereads!

Hmm, doesn't sound intriguing, but I guess you are..."


Hmm, true, I do fancy my pants... not sure where I'm going with this. :D:D
To be honest, the only reason why it's even remotely interesting is because these characters weren't nearly enough developed in main series, so I'm hoping to learn more on them. Other than that, I'd consider this book that I'm reading right now as struggling to get through. :/ He is so much better writer later in his career...


message 16: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "
Hmm, true, I do fancy my pants... not sure where I'm going with this. :D:D
To be honest, the only reason why it's even remotely interesting is because these characters weren't nearly enough developed in main series, so I'm hoping to learn more on them. Other than that, I'd consider this book that I'm reading right now as struggling to get through. :/ He is so much better writer later in his career... "


I see, so Ian's books are more to be read for scientific purposes. Be strong, young grasshopper 😉


Stefan These one here, sadly yes. But I cannot express enough how great his prequel series is. Or maybe I can, hmm... :D :D


message 18: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "These one here, sadly yes. But I cannot express enough how great his prequel series is. Or maybe I can, hmm... :D :D"

Lol, yes, tell me how many times did you reread the prequel series, it'll show how great they are 😆


Stefan Do not tempt me. :D:D

description


message 20: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Do not tempt me. :D:D

"


Who, me? Never 😂


Stefan *takes off his nonexistent glasses, cleans them and puts them back on*
Hmm, have I told you about prequels that I have read few months ago? Great books about history of Malazan world. They shine new light on the very beginning of the series, I might say. :D


message 22: by Orient (new)

Orient Whaaatt? No purple color, no glasses? If I were you, I'd buy purple goggles! Outrageous!!!!! 😱

Hmm, you haven't told me anything, so go on, start with the beginning 😎

When I was young (and dinosaurs walked the earth)........


Stefan Oooo, I'd like my eyes to be purple colour... alas, I'm stuck with beautiful brown ones... :D:D
Hmm, purple glasses with fake nose. Don't need fake mustache, already have those. :D

No, no, no. First, there was Dark. And from the Dark came the Light. :D
Hmm, now that I think of, I might as well shamelessly advertise this: Forge of Darkness review
There I have meticulously described the very beginning we're talking about. :D :D And I feel proud like I wrote the book, not just read it, lol.
Take a look if you're interested. :D


message 24: by Orient (last edited Feb 04, 2018 01:40PM) (new)

Orient Brown is so outfashioned 😵 Jk 😆 Nice touch with the fake nose , why have one if you can have two 😆

Ah, ok, no dinos, ah well.... Maybe next time.....

Hats off to you, Mr. Stefan Erikson 😉


Stefan Oh my god, that picture... I... I'm mildly disturbed right now... Poor Rex... :/
But wait, Dinos come later. I mean, K'chain Che'malle are the most bad-ass version of dinos since these guys

description

Ohhh, how I miss 90's television... :/


message 26: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Oh my god, that picture... I... I'm mildly disturbed right now... Poor Rex... :/
But wait, Dinos come later. I mean, K'chain Che'malle are the most bad-ass version of dinos since these guys

Ohhh..."


Yes, poor Rexy, I still have hopes!

Ohh yes, K'chain Che'malle are soo awesome, I loved them, but they had a bad mom 😱

Ahaha these guys from the 90's made me fall in love with dinos! 💜💜


message 27: by Orient (new)

Orient Travelin wrote: "Orient, you topped even yourself with that photo!"

Eh, I know, what a terrible person I am, but can't help it!


Stefan Orient wrote: "Stefan wrote: "Oh my god, that picture... I... I'm mildly disturbed right now... Poor Rex... :/
But wait, Dinos come later. I mean, K'chain Che'malle are the most bad-ass version of dinos since the..."


Well, we have snapping turtles, alligators and chickens, so I'd call it a win-win. :D
Oh, dear Orinta, you know only half of the story... wait until you see their short-tailed brothers and sisters... :/
Hahaha, just watched a short clip from that show - they don't make them like that anymore... :/ Should I even mention that little baby has purple eyes? No? Okay. :D:D


message 29: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Orient wrote: "Stefan wrote: "Oh my god, that picture... I... I'm mildly disturbed right now... Poor Rex... :/
But wait, Dinos come later. I mean, K'chain Che'malle are the most bad-ass version of ..."


"snapping turtles, alligators and chickens" oh my 😆



True, nowadays we can't see the old fun stuff and I adore baby Sinclair, but, just for the record, his eyes are more brown than purple 😂

P.S. Rex had to go. Sigh, being an atheist I sometimes forget to act nicely around Catholics. Sorry.


Stefan God, I hate that movie... Best Disney villain and they destroyed her utterly in this piece of shit. :D
Hmm, not purple enough, your Purpleness?

description

You're shitting me? You have every right to express your doubt and mock every fucking religion, as much as they have the right to bother you with their beliefs... oh, what am I talking about, it's internet - place for everyone to get offended, lol.
P.S. Fellow atheist here. Not that that matters even remotely to anything. :D


message 31: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "God, I hate that movie... Best Disney villain and they destroyed her utterly in this piece of shit. :D
Hmm, not purple enough, your Purpleness?

You're shitting me? You have every right to express your doubt and mock every fucking religion, as much as they have the right to bother you with their beliefs... oh, what am I talking about, it's internet - place for everyone to get offended, lol.
P.S. Fellow atheist here. Not that that matters even remotely to anything. :D "


Hear hear, nowadays is often so, I rarely watch remakes now!

Lol, I blame my old age! You are absolutely right, the purplesness is evident and I, a humble human, thought that this fabulous little creature has wonderful brown eyes as you! 😆

Sigh, yes, internet is full of people who know the "right". I received a nice letter yesterday and my poor Rex was taken.

Yay, Atheist Powerrrrr! 😆





message 32: by Orient (new)

Orient Travelin wrote: "My comment was nothing but a compliment. I'm very sad indeed not to see that photo again."

Hah, not all people are like you or my atheist friend, Stefan 😉 Lol, you can play with Rex there 😆 (view spoiler)


message 33: by Sade (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sade Ugh!! goodreads needs to have a "pin this review somewhere so i can read after i've read the book" button


Stefan Orient wrote: "Hear hear, nowadays is often so, I rarely watch remakes now!

Lol, I blame my old age! You are absolutely right, the purplesness is evident and I, a humble human, thought that this fabulous little creature has wonderful brown eyes as you! 😆

Sigh, yes, internet is full of people who know the "right". I received a nice letter yesterday and my poor Rex was taken.

Yay, Atheist Powerrrrr! 😆"


Hahaha, no worries, it happens even to best of us, right? :D:D
Don't know about you, but I would trade these beautiful brown eyes with his plastic purple ones. :D :D
Le sigh, indeed. Last night was Superbowl and during the commercial break there was a 30 sec video for Scientology - and everyone is losing their mind right now. :D
And I'm like: They have Tom Cruise, you have Jesus, what are you bitching about? :D

Lol, remember Alexandria's library? You don't? Oh right, maybe because it was sacked by mindless Christian horde... :D


Stefan ijeoma Agbaje wrote: "Ugh!! goodreads needs to have a "pin this review somewhere so i can read after i've read the book" button"

Yikes! Sorry if I have spoiled something. I actually didn't include nearly as half of things that happens in it. :D


message 36: by Sade (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sade Stefan wrote: "ijeoma Agbaje wrote: "Ugh!! goodreads needs to have a "pin this review somewhere so i can read after i've read the book" button"

Yikes! Sorry if I have spoiled something. I actually didn't include..."

nah no worries. you didn't. havent really read through the review though. just bugged cos right now i won't be able to really comment on the review and you know really discuss the book. Always so much more fun when you've read the book being reviewed. I need to catch up fast. This is actually my next malazan read so i'm not that far behind. yay :)


Stefan Oh, I worried for a moment there because I'm usually writing spoiler-free and I though I F-d it up a bit. :D
We'll discuss about anything you find interesting as you go through your reading progress, don't worry. God knows I like to talk endlessly about Malazan books. :D
As for book itself - as per usual: be prepared and enjoy reading it. :D


message 38: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Hahaha, no worries, it happens even to best of us, right? :D:D
Don't know about you, but I would trade these beautiful brown eyes with his plastic purple ones. :D :D
Le sigh, indeed. Last night was Superbowl and during the commercial break there was a 30 sec video for Scientology - and everyone is losing their mind right now. :D
And I'm like: They have Tom Cruise, you have Jesus, what are you bitching about? :D

Lol, remember Alexandria's library? You don't? Oh right, maybe because it was sacked by mindless Christian horde... :D "


Oh, yes, plastic huge purple eyes are on trend now 😂👀

Omg, Scientology! You have a strong will, young grasshopper 😉Lol nice comparison! Umm, did you try forming your own religion? 😂 Like Stefanology or Stefanolics (sorry, sounds strange 😂)

Ahahaha, poor Alexandria, I guess that's where Atheism started!


Stefan Hahahaha, actually I did. But then I realized that we already have enough of weirdos as it is, so we don't need them every Sunday morning, gathered around one roof. :D Safer for... environment. :D


message 40: by Orient (new)

Orient Yes, indeed. It's far more safer to gather in the sewers or at least on GR....... 😂 I know from my personal experience 😆


Stefan Funny that you mention sewers... do you know that my religion would consist of worshiping pizzas and gods would be Ninja Turtles? From the 80's, of course. :D :D
Alas, like all gods, neither were these real... :/


message 42: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "Funny that you mention sewers... do you know that my religion would consist of worshiping pizzas and gods would be Ninja Turtles? From the 80's, of course. :D :D
Alas, like all gods, neither were t..."


I love TMNT! My bro and I watched the movies and series almost endlessly and there's still Leo's costume left somewhere in the attic! I was Donnie 😆 Yes, all cool stuff is not real, sigh. If you wanna try the costume - it's still there......Aww, thanks for reminding about TMNT 💜


Stefan I'm Mikey. I'm still Mikey, people would say. :D :D
No problemo, I love making people happy! :D Hmm, we'll talk about that costume, though. :D :D


message 44: by Orient (new)

Orient Stefan wrote: "I'm Mikey. I'm still Mikey, people would say. :D :D
No problemo, I love making people happy! :D Hmm, we'll talk about that costume, though. :D :D"





Stefan Radical! :D :D

description


message 46: by Orient (new)

Orient Travelin wrote: "Orient wrote: "Travelin wrote: "My comment was nothing but a compliment. I'm very sad indeed not to see that photo again."

Hah, not all people are like you or my atheist friend, Stefan 😉 Lol, you ..."


Ahahaha, thanks Travelin, you really made my day 😂


Rinaldo I just read your review and suffice to say, your assessment of Karsa and Samar Dev resonates strongly with me.

Karsa is an appalling character for me, and unfortunately, Erikson made Karsa as such an infallible character. And like you said there, the presence of a challenger is important to keep his story interesting. Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of change in Karsa in this book even in the first half. Instead, it's Samar Dev who gets convinced.. Here's hoping for a more engaging development in the next book.


Mayim de Vries I liked Karsa more before, now he is just a walking warren. (how boring) I think SE's best character is the soldiers (plural).


Stefan Mayim wrote: "I liked Karsa more before, now he is just a walking warren. (how boring) I think SE's best character is the soldiers (plural)."

"Is it really the entirety of the emotional span we can have about him in the fact that we are easily amazed how strongly, quickly and viciously he deals with his enemies?"

For majority of the readers: yes.
As I've said in my review for House of Chains, I get what SE tried to accomplish with Karsa's character and his antithesis on "Conan the Barbarian trope", but he failed so miserably in it.
In an effort to battle that trope, he actually created another one just like that.
That's why I think that Karsa and Anomander hurt this series.
It was great to see Samar Dev battling Karsa and challenging him in other, nonphysical ways, but in the end, she too became a fan of him.

Yeah, I agree. And that goes straight from influence that Glen Cook had on SE with his Black Company. That and Iliad.
I would also add that characterization is his best character. I think that makes sense? :D


Mayim de Vries The thing is, I really liked Karsa in the House of Chains. He was a breath of fresh air (never have read Conan so tropes escape me). Now, he has lost the appeal. Rake never had on me the effect he seems to have on other female readers so again, I cannot relate. I will choose Whiskeyjack or Fiddler ten times over these two.

As far as this instalment go I am happy the Adjunct has developed so nicely. And I warmed up towards Apsalar.


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