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Manny's Reviews > Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English
Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English
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Manny's review
bookshelves: blame-jordan-if-you-like, linguistics-and-philosophy, well-i-think-its-funny, strongly-recommended, pooh-dante
Jan 25, 2010
bookshelves: blame-jordan-if-you-like, linguistics-and-philosophy, well-i-think-its-funny, strongly-recommended, pooh-dante
A fantastic book! I have not come across anyone, not even Steven Pinker, who does such a good job of showing you how exciting linguistics can be. His bold and unconventional history of the English language was full of ideas I'd never seen before, but which made excellent sense. And, before I get into the review proper, a contrite apology to Jordan. She gave it to me six months ago as a birthday present, and somehow I didn't open it until last week. Well, Jordan, thank you, and I'll try to be more alert next time!
So, the book. I'm a linguist of sorts myself, though a rather different kind to McWhorter: his work has centered around the things that happen to grammar when different languages come into contact with each other, while I use grammar as a way to construct speech-enabled software. But, as you'll see a bit later, the fact that we both give a central place to grammar means that our research directions have more to do with each other than you might first think. In Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue, McWhorter looks at the history of the English language from his unusual viewpoint. The language has clearly changed a lot since it came into existence; why did it evolve the way it did? McWhorter's answer is that the big changes happened when speakers of different languages started mingling together. He focuses on three changes of this kind.
The rest of this review is available elsewhere (the location cannot be given for Goodreads policy reasons)
So, the book. I'm a linguist of sorts myself, though a rather different kind to McWhorter: his work has centered around the things that happen to grammar when different languages come into contact with each other, while I use grammar as a way to construct speech-enabled software. But, as you'll see a bit later, the fact that we both give a central place to grammar means that our research directions have more to do with each other than you might first think. In Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue, McWhorter looks at the history of the English language from his unusual viewpoint. The language has clearly changed a lot since it came into existence; why did it evolve the way it did? McWhorter's answer is that the big changes happened when speakers of different languages started mingling together. He focuses on three changes of this kind.
The rest of this review is available elsewhere (the location cannot be given for Goodreads policy reasons)
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Reading Progress
January 25, 2010
–
Started Reading
January 25, 2010
– Shelved
January 25, 2010
– Shelved as:
blame-jordan-if-you-like
January 26, 2010
–
13.04%
"This is the most exciting linguistics book I've read in at least a year!"
page
30
January 26, 2010
–
36.96%
"He argues that auxiliary 'do' and the normal present with be + '-ing' come from Welsh. Amazing that no one else has even suggested it!"
page
85
January 27, 2010
–
50.0%
"Why nothing is wrong with "Billy and me". Russian examples are nice, but I'm surprised he doesn't also compare with French "Jean et moi"."
page
115
January 27, 2010
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73.91%
"Why did English syntax become so greatly simplified between Old English and Middle English? He blames the Vikings, and presents evidence."
page
170
January 27, 2010
–
85.22%
"Vicious attacks on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Their key data comes from Hopi, but it turns they knew little about the language. Oops!"
page
196
January 28, 2010
– Shelved as:
linguistics-and-philosophy
January 28, 2010
– Shelved as:
well-i-think-its-funny
January 28, 2010
–
Finished Reading
January 30, 2010
– Shelved as:
strongly-recommended
March 29, 2013
– Shelved as:
pooh-dante
Comments Showing 1-43 of 43 (43 new)
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Robert
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Jan 28, 2010 12:46AM
I just read the short review...is McWhorter as controvercial as Dawkins? Does he have rival theorists who's ideas make more sense (at least to me)?
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He's definitely controversial... I'm sure that elderly professors of linguistics are spluttering with indignation all over Europe. I'll have more to say shortly, but need to take care of some urgent stuff first...
I loved this book. Manny, are you a linguist?
Yes, I'm a computational linguist... look me up on Google Scholar. I will have a lot to say about this book soon!
Manny wrote: "Yes, I'm a computational linguist... look me up on Google Scholar. I will have a lot to say about this book soon!"Can't wait, Manny.
OK - this is what I like hearing about! I'm going to have to try to find what Tolkien said about Welsh and the philology of English.
Having really enjoyed all the Pinker I've read, I'm rather looking forward to this one. And yet, just slightly uneasy that he gets to behave like an anthropologist: it all sounds good, but.
I find it hard to understand why anyone would need a book to make linguistics exciting. It is the most naturally fascinating subject I've ever encountered - I could easily drop everything I'm doing in my life now, change directions entirely, start studying linguistics, spend the rest of my life working on it, and be incredibly happy. That said, I've always found historical linguistics to be the least interesting part of the whole field - I'm totally reading this book!
Chandra wrote: "Love the review! The discussion of Welsh influence on English reminds me a bit of the influence of African slaves on American English."Thank you! And it is entirely possible that McWhorter has written about that theme elsewhere. If you look at his other books, you'll see that he's very interested in Black American...
A really good review. Being Swedish it has struck me that english is so much easier for Swedes to learn than say german, which sounds closer to Swedish. This would be an explanation.
Choupette wrote: "I find it hard to understand why anyone would need a book to make linguistics exciting. It is the most naturally fascinating subject I've ever encountered - I could easily drop everything I'm doing..."Oh Choupette, I worry for you. :-)
I feel obliged to register a little bleat of disagreement with the McWhorter love-fest. Too many of the usual linguistic strawmen on parade here for my liking. And the first 100 pages of the book fastens onto an observation that any Irish schoolkid will have made by age six and chews on it interminably until you want to run screaming into the night. We're not brain dead, Professor McWhorter. No, please don't explain it again... The horror! The horror!
David! you have used The horror! The horror! How Apocalypse Now of you. Maybe even Conrad, but I couldn't even make myself read that back in the day.
David, please remember that this is the popularized version, and that most of his intended readers will never have seen a Celtic language in their lives! If you want a more concisely presented and formal account, aimed at linguists, check out his 2009 paper "What else happened to English? A brief for the Celtic hypothesis". http://iserp.columbia.edu/files/iserp...
Thank you Abigail! And you might also want to take a look at his Language, Interrupted, which I'm reading now... only recommended to people who are serious about language, but you're clearly in that category. He takes the example of Old English becoming simplified as a result of colliding with Old Norse, and examines it in rather more detail; then he gives four more case-studies of similar collisions, one of which is Mandarin Chinese. It's by no means as easy a read, but very interesting. Will post a review when I'm finished.
There is something exciting about this little book to the non-specialist. I studied literature in college but no real linguistics, so all my curiosities about our -- admittedly -- bizarre language just sucks up any book on the subject. It is a book like this one that spur people like me to delve deeper into the influences of English.
There is a nice discussion of McWhorter's book at this link:http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090629...
It is indeed nice! Thank you :)
I never thought Jordan had an interest in linguistics. However, her book about her life *was* the most often non-fiction book requested from Cambridge libraries last time I checked...
Yet another Mannificent Bastard review.I suppose you can sing like John Cale too?
You give me genius envy every time I read one of your reviews.
Even when you're not being funny.
Well, thank you! Though if it makes you feel better, my vocal skills are of the kind Alexander Pope referred to when he wroteSwans sing before they die; 'twere no bad thing
Should certain persons die before they sing
Manny wrote: "Well, thank you! Though if it makes you feel better, my vocal skills are of the kind Alexander Pope referred to when he wrote, Swans sing before they die; 'twere no bad thingShould certain persons die before they sing."
Me too.
Funny, I was just mentioning Pope the other day.
I thought I was the only person in the western world to read him in the last 50 years.
And I only read him because I was made to as a form of punishment.
I had intended it to be My Blakean Year.
I so enjoyed your review, Manny. I'm a native English speaker married to a Norwegian and have wondered about the very points you covered. Although he's more fluent in English than many native speakers, my husband still occasionally goofs up on the difference between "I go to school" and "I am going to school." Very interesting, and I may buy him this book for a gift.
Thank you Ruth! If you're interested in these matters, it really is a fun book :)
Sounds like and incredible read. Gotta get my hands on this book.
Anya, will be interested to hear what you think!
This sounds fascinating, but not excessively obscure. I particularly enjoyed your explanation of the effect of English being "beaten up by Old Norse".
It's very readable. The "beaten up" phrase is a direct quote from McWhorter.
I agree. I found myself laughing, and I don't know if I am a nerd or if it would be funny to anyone. But it was so enjoyable that I wouldn't be surprised if everyone liked it.
Glad to hear you agree! He does have a wonderful way of putting things, doesn't he?
So where can I find the rest of your review, since GR seems to have removed the reference?
It's in my collection What Pooh Might Have Said to Dante. I am not allowed to say this in the review, but I can in the comments.
Thanks Manny. I might just have to splurge and get a copy!
I recommend it! And I don't say that about most of the things I've written :)
Have you seen this McWhorter interview on Trump's use of language? Fake news of course...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwnpa...
I've read a couple of his books and exchanged some emails, but never heard him speak live until now. I hope he would approve. He's good!
Yeah. I really liked this book when I read it some years ago, but I don't have any background in this area so it was hard to judge how non-mainstream his ideas were. He's clearly a very creative intelligent thinker.
A lot of linguists hate him, but it's hard not to think that at least in some cases it's because they're jealous.
The insecurity of even some very senior academics has always surprised me. It's a tough world, but not as tough as they make out.
Excellent review.
I, too, am a big McWhorter fan and have listened to all of his books except this one, which I’m starting tonight. Listening to him is fascinating and enjoyable.
