Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hubert Kretzschmar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 05:14, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hubert Kretzschmar

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Not seeing notability under WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST. Their best known work appears to be in collaboration with the Rolling Stones, but most listed sources do not even mention Kretzchmar, or have brief passing mentions. Others are unreliable. Not seeing in-depth coverage anywhere in reliable sources. —Ganesha811 (talk) 17:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Visual arts. —Ganesha811 (talk) 17:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:24, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:25, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Likewise, I was unable to find any in-depth coverage in WP:LIBRARY, newspapers.com, archive.org, or Google Books or web searches. The long list of external links in the article does not inspire confidence that there is something out there we're missing, because every one of them that I checked is non-RS, non-independent, or non-significant, except for maybe [1], which is just not enough on its own. Jfire (talk) 04:54, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, as here we have one of the major innovators and pioneers in their fields of art and illustration technology. Please read the article, line by line, an article created in early January (we should be thanking its creator instead of pushing an AfD on them). Many album covers, writings, exhibitions, collaborations and other forms of notable and yes, iconic, contributions have been accomplished by Kretzschmar. A couple more cites should be found or formed from the extensive External links, but that's just a matter for the already existing tags and not an AfDeletion attempt for this very notable personage. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that were accurate, wouldn't we be able to find more in-depth coverage of him somewhere? I've read the article line by line and while it certainly describes (often in non-netural terms) an active and working artist, I don't see any evidence of a notable one. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. If even half of what the article says is true then the non-neutral terms are earned and warranted. There are already a few notable sources or External links, so notability shouldn't be a problem as the article further develops (which is one of the biggest benefits of opening an AfD, which makes more editors aware of the topic). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This reads like a WP:SOURCESEXIST argment to me. In your view, what are the top three EL sources (or other sources not in the article) that establish notability? Jfire (talk) 16:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I am looking for better sources. A lithograph of one of their Rolling Stones album covers is in the Museum of Modern Art[2] permanent collection. Elspea756 (talk) 16:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I haven't been able to find sources to show this meets WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST. The amount of ridiculous promotion in the article isn't helping. There are unsourced claims like that "Kretzschmar was associated with New York artists Kenny Scharf, Keith Haring, and Jean Michel Basquiat" with no indication what what being "associated with" is even supposed to mean, or who "associated" them, or how being "associated with" a much more successful artist is supposed to somehow rub off on this other artist. There are also for example claims like that they were in the exhibition "Programmed: Rules, Codes, and Choreographies in Art, 1965–2018" at the Whitney Museum of American Art, but the Whitney Museum's website[3] does not list them among the 41 artists in that show, and a google search for the name of the show and this artist's name turns up only this wikipedia article itself. I think this is unfortunately probably a case where graphic designers of even iconic album covers go unrecognized by the news media and book publishers we typically use as sources, and where the amount of over-the-top promotion in the article has possibly buried any useful information. Elspea756 (talk) 15:48, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete One RS piece of information about this artist found on WP:BEFORE, the collaborative lithograph of the album cover for the Rolling Stones, Tattoo You. NO reliable sources for biographical information presented. It appears to be gleaned from artist's statements and interviews. I removed the exhaustive and unsourced list of exhibitions. Most of the claims for Collections were either unsourced, failed verification, or had primary sources. Perhaps some information could be merged inth the Peter Corriston led violation of copyright laws to create "Some Girls" cover, but even that should be integrated into Some Girls#Packaging and artwork. Kretzschmar fails WP:ARTIST. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:32, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.