Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jakiw Palij (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of denaturalized Americans. Consensus is that the subject is only notable for one event. A merge has been suggested by a number of participants, but there is no clear proposal (what will be merged to where) that has received any support. The arguments for deletion are policy-based and enjoy consensus support. However, the redirect suggested is a viable option that is not inconsistent with the reasons to delete the article. No delete !voters have raised any objection to it, and in this case, redirection achieves the objectives of the delete !voters: removal of a separate article. So redirect it will be. No-one has raised any reason why deletion of the page's history behind the new redirect would be appropriate, but I am happy to consider any reasons to do so on my talk page. Mkativerata (talk) 23:55, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jakiw Palij

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Article doesn't appear to assert any kind of note, an individual losing his citizenship is not in itself noteworthy - or any kind of test case or ground breaking legal descision - he appears not to have played any notable part in any crimes as such just failed to declare the detail. I prodded the article but it seems to have been at AFD previously and deleted and was recreated - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jakiw_Palij - article was the subject of a request at the BLPN also here. - Off2riorob (talk) 14:54, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Off2riorob (talk) 14:54, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nomination, appears to be a clear WP:BLP1E. ukexpat (talk) 15:37, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - being stripped of the US citizenship is unusual, notable and easily documentable.--Galassi (talk) 15:45, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Jaroslaw Bilaniuk in a joint article about the case. Their case is probably notable but they make no sense as two distinct bios containing redundant information. --Cyclopia ^talk 16:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge is not possible per WP:COATRACK.--Galassi (talk) 20:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why? It seems that the Palij-Bilaniuk case is indeed a notable case, and a single article oughts to cover it. What coatrack are you talking about? (Besides, WP:COATRACK is just an essay: a very sensible one in some places, a very wrong one in others). --Cyclopia ^talk 22:18, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: Jaroslaw Bilaniuk page also has a pending AFD, created January 10, 2011 (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2011), so merge is not really appropriate, as the page may be deleted completely. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 19:23, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- -- Cirt (talk) 16:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(comment) I once worked with a number of displaced persons after WW2 that originally came from Eastern Europe: Poland, Latvia, Ukraine. A number were rabid anti-semites which you could provoke if you pressed the right buttons. Then again the Poles hated the Ukrainians, and the Ukrainians hated the Poles, and neither liked the Latvians, etc. They kept much to there own groups with an air of righteous hatred for the other groups. All appeared to have done whatever it took to survive and/or travel across Europe in various forced labour gangs, Except for one who eventually showed me a personal memoir of travel of walking across Europe (the exact country was never revealed) and being cold, shoeless, and begging for food. They were all fairly secretive above life during WW2 even with the memoir one had a feeling that a lot was being omitted. In over 18 years one only got snippets of information out of any of them. What I'm saying here is that some of them did terrible things, some willingly, others drafted or forced, and others were just part of labour gangs. All were secretive, and I'd surmise that if they got from where they were at the end of WW2 to the US or the UK, they were bound to have done something that they didn't want the authorities to know about. John lilburne (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting anecdote, but what's its relevance here? --Cyclopia ^talk 19:40, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The relevance is that there were a lot of people that made it from the Polish/Ukrainian area after the war to the West. Most were driven or fled westwards as the Soviet forces drove the Germans out of the area, some were nasty little shits and others were caught up in events. If there is evidence they should be deported back to where they can face trial. As with Demjanjuk there should be no Amnesty, let the law take its course. If the authorities aren't prepared to prosecute then all there is is rumours. That this person didn't declare his full involvement with the Nazis is not particularly unusual in the aftermath of WW2. John lilburne (talk) 22:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unlikely subject for any reader to seek information about. And WP does not have articles on everyone who has had citizenship revoked, which is a case of "otherstuffexists" at best. Collect (talk) 22:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete but an article about a bunch of these guys collectively, incorporating this person's info, would be acceptable. This particular individual doesn't seem notable but the phenomenon of people being stripped of citizenship due to wartime crimes is.Faustian (talk) 23:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - I think the topic is notable but not the individuals involved. --Kumioko (talk) 00:26, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete While it's a sad story in itself, what makes the man himself inherintly notable? He lost citizenship for not disclosing information, was found guilty but not deported, and died? This doesn't fail WP:BLP because the guy isn't living, but I really don't see a need for a seperate article here. Dusti^*poke* 00:54, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as an example into the relevant section of the Trawniki article. John lilburne (talk) 13:07, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or redirect: (Caveat: I created the page). Still hold he is notable for the sum of his actions, life story and stripping of U.S. citizenship. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 19:21, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Complete deletion is not appropriate anyway in light of inclusion in the List of denaturalized Americans which would mean that if article is not kept name should be a redirect to the list, created today. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 21:10, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - looks like BLP1E from here. Qrsdogg (talk) 20:17, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of denaturalized Americans. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.